Senator HARRADINE (1:18 PM) —I have listened to what the minister said, and I did not hear him say that there would be no operational staffing implication of the decision of Telstra with regard to the manager of Tasmania. This was a decision made by Telstra. It was a decision conveyed to me, at all events, in writing by the Chief Executive Officer of Telstra. In fact, this will not be a chimera. Senator Mackay is making assumptions which are not there. You are putting words into the minister's mouth that I at least did not hear him say. I do not think that is appropriate in the committee stage of a debate, nor, indeed, in the second reading stage. With regard to that particular position, it will recognise Tasmania as a separate entity in that particular area—a major area—rather than as a Victorian country region. In addition to the appointment of that manager, there will be a support team of at least five people for that particular operation; and that has been conveyed to me by Telstra.

I am interested to hear Senator Mackay asking questions about employment in Tasmania. She ought to know—and I ask her to get up and deny this—that, in respect of job adjustments and job losses, other states have fared much worse than Tasmania in actual terms and in percentage terms over the last three or four years, despite the fact that a decline was commencing even then. I ask her to get up and deny that. She has not had any hand in trying to protect the jobs of Tasmanians in Telstra itself. In fact, she is part of an organisation, the Labor Party, which supported very strongly the deregulation of the industry.

I had independent advice given to me. I asked what was causing the effect on employment in Telstra in mainland states of Australia and in Tasmania. In summary, the response was:

. Telecommunications is a very high growth industry.

. While its services are very capital intensive, the companies involved (particularly Telstra) are significant employers.

. But as the industry becomes more capital intensive (eg through the elimination of manual exchanges and reduced dependence on the traditional copper wire infrastructure) it is to be expected that employment growth will ease or actually decline.

. Easing off in Telstra's employment growth since 1996 is a response to deregulation to the extent that Telstra has lost market share in the long-distance markets.

. Too early to say what impact privatisation has had on Telstra employment, but the predominant influences on Telstra employment have been the impact of deregulation and the labour shedding effects of technological change.

Forget about all of the argument that Senator Mackay has been carrying on with in Tasmania. Let her face the facts—and those are the facts. The independent advice that I have received was that the predominant reasons for job losses are the deregulatory environment, the new players coming into the field, together with advances in technological change. I think we have to face the situation realistically. In those circumstances, you have to try to look at the area where you are best suited. Those areas have been identified, and there has been considerable work done on getting alternative job opportunities within Telstra as well as outside Telstra for persons in the communications industry.

I am not here to talk much about what has transpired over the last few months with respect to negotiations. All I do say is that I acknowledge that the Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts has had a considerable interest in what happens in regional and rural Australia and, particularly, he has a great interest in the state of Tasmania. But in pursuing that interest, the minister has not disadvantaged other areas within Australia. In fact, I pay credit to him for bumping up the social bonus from $671 million to $1 billion. I think that is an action that the minister took having regard to the importance that he and indeed his government place on rural and regional Australia in the area of communications. I am aware of the Prime Minister's view and the views of a number of ministers, including the Minister for Transport and Regional Services, on this.

I would also like to place on record my appreciation of the work done by Telstra and various government departments—both federal and state, Senator Mackay. I believe that the considerable amount of work that this involved has resulted in a substantial improvement on what we were first faced with in this chamber in the bill that is currently before us.