Senator CROSSIN (7:21 PM) —This morning in the Northern Territory Assembly, the Northern Territory Labor Party tabled a transcript and edited video of a focus discussion group run in the Northern Territory by the notorious Liberal pollster, Mark Textor. I should point out that this is the first time a videotape has been tabled in an Australian parliament—and it is very revealing.

Previous evidence presented to the Senate has outlined how Mark Textor, as director of his front company, Territory Focus Consulting, was involved in a shonky plan with Shane Stone, the then President of the Country Liberal Party, to defraud Northern Territory taxpayers by using public money for political research on behalf of the CLP. Of course, the former President of the CLP and recently deposed CLP Chief Minister, Shane Stone, is the same man that the Prime Minister Mr Howard has apparently given his imprimatur to to become the next President of the Federal Liberal Party.

In the last five months the Senate has heard much about the Liberal Party's favourite pollster, Mark Textor. Today I have a transcript of the edited video of two of those focus group discussions that Mark Textor held in 1993. They clearly show how he lied and deceived those involved in focus groups. As we will see, Mark Textor's behaviour and the behaviour of those people associated with him have implications not only for the new Chief Minister of the Northern Territory, Denis Burke, but for the federal Liberal Party.

The transcript clearly shows that Mark Textor lied to the members of the focus discussion group. At one point, Mark Textor was asked whether the video of the group discussion would be kept. He said the tape would not be kept.

Senator Kemp —I raise a point of order, Madam Deputy President. I think it is a great pity that Senator Crossin seems to have entered into this sort of campaign. I thought Senator Crossin was above that—

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT —What is your point of order, Senator?

Senator Kemp —The point of order is that she is calling an individual a liar in this place. I think that is quite unparliamentary and that she should be asked to withdraw.

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT —It is not unparliamentary. She is not referring to any member of parliament in a manner which reflects poorly upon them. There is no point of order.

Senator Kemp —I raise another point of order, Madam Deputy President. I think that what we are seeing here is an attempt to slander the character of an individual. Surely by the normal rules of this parliament, this is quite unparliamentary. The language is quite unparliamentary. It is uncharacteristic, I might say, of Senator Crossin. I am rather shocked to hear this this evening.

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT —There is no point of order. If the individual mentioned feels he has a complaint, he has a right of redress under the standing orders.

Senator CROSSIN —I would like to read his response when he was asked about the videorecorder, bearing in mind that this is an actual transcript of a video tape. He said to the group of people in the discussion group:

In terms of the camera, there's nothing sinister . . . there's 12 people talking over one another because they're in that much of a hurry, so what I do is I record it and later on tonight I'll run over it and then make notes, and then use it for the next group. Okay.

In response to another question from a member of the group about whether he would keep the tape he lies:

No, it's not stored or recorded, no. I do this stuff all the time.

Senator Coonan —I raise a point of order, Madam Deputy President. On a further point in relation to your ruling, pursuant to standing order 197(2) there is reference to a senator being able to `draw attention at any time to a point of order or a matter of privilege arising in the proceedings'. If you look to the exercise of freedom of speech under the standing orders relating to privilege, one of the items refers very clearly to the fact that `there is a desirability of ensuring that statements reflecting adversely on persons are soundly based'. To say that somebody is lying, simply because you have seen a video, seems to me to be getting perilously close to requiring you in your role as chair to take that into account as needing to balance the exercise of freedom of speech with the need to ensure that any allegation made is soundly based.

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT —There is no point of order. Senator Crossin is giving an indication of why she thinks this is untrue.

Senator Coonan —She said that he lied.

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT —I am using the word `untrue'. She says she feels it is a lie and she is giving evidence and an indication as to why she thinks that. She has the right to outline that under freedom of speech.

Senator Kemp —On the point of order, these allegations are made by Senator Crossin, which is not typical of Senator Crossin, I might say. I guess she has been put up to it by—

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT —What is your point of order, Senator?

Senator Kemp —The point of order is that I think we would like to know how this tape came into the hands of Senator Crossin. Was the tape stolen, for example? Are you in possession of stolen goods?

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT —Senator Kemp, there is no point of order. The material was tabled in the Northern Territory parliament today.

Senator CROSSIN —He went on to say:

No, it's not stored or recorded, no. I do this stuff all the time. If I bought a new tape for every one, I'd be broke.

He said, `It's not stored or recorded', but he clearly did store the tape, contrary to what he told the group members, because the Labor Party has a copy of the video of a number of those focus discussion groups—a transcript and a copy of the edited video were tabled this morning in the Northern Territory Assembly.

Remember that Mark Textor is the same man whom the Senate heard earlier this month had received over $500,000 in contracts from the federal government in the previous 12 months. I can imagine that there are some very angry people in the Northern Territory who were involved in those discussion groups. Why? Because they were deceived. Mark Textor kept a copy of the video, despite the reassurances he had given.

Senator Kemp —I raise a point of order. We are seeing an astonishingly highly selective contribution—

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT —What is your point of order?

Senator Kemp —The Australian Republican Movement, of which Senator Crossin is a supporter, has employed Mark Textor. It is utterly absurd.

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT —There is no point of order, Minister, and that is a spurious point of order. You know yourself that you are out of order. Senator Crossin, please continue.

Senator CROSSIN —Not only that, but unknown to the members of the group, they were being watched on closed-circuit television by a number of CLP operatives. But Mark Textor's deceit did not stop there. On a number of occasions Mr Textor was asked on whose behalf he was carrying out the research. When a member of the focus discussion group asked him why he was conducting this group he said:

What I do is I do these surveys, and then people contact me and say, a company that's from down south, or local companies, and they say, what do Territorians think about the politics of the place, the government, the lifestyle . . . And I produce a report.

What Mark Textor neglected to tell members was that he was working for the Northern Territory Country Liberal Party. Later a member of the focus group asked him:

Do you work for the Labor or the Liberal governments?

His reply was:

No, I don't work for either. What I do is I come up in different states for companies that operate in that state. And I try and find out what is the big picture.

When further pressed by members of the group about who he was working for Mr Textor says:

I conduct these surveys without actually having a proper client.

That is probably right, because he had quite an improper client. He then went on:

I then sell on the information . . . And a company might want to come up here and assess what Territorians think about the government, or about lifestyle, about drinking, and a bunch of other things . . . . And then I sell them a report and say this is what people think.

But his client was the Northern Territory government and he was being paid for by Territory taxpayers. It is on the record that this man, Mark Textor, a favourite of the Prime Minister and the federal Liberal Party, as well as the Northern Territory CLP, has been involved in activities in the Northern Territory and in push polling activities in the ACT that can only be described as unethical, illegal and immoral. The Senate has heard recently—

Senator Coonan —I rise on a point of order, Madam Deputy President. The privilege resolutions that were agreed to by the Senate on 25 February 1998 very clearly require the Senate to balance the very valuable right to exercise freedom of speech, and they enjoin senators to be very careful about the need to exercise their valuable right to freedom of speech and to do it in a responsible manner and not to reflect adversely on persons unless the reflection is soundly based. Once you get into accusing a citizen of illegal activity, in my respectful submission you really do cross that line, because you get into a line of country where you have passed from making a comment in a free-flowing and robust debate, which we all engage in from time to time, and which is precisely the function of the Senate. Once you get into accusing someone of illegal activity, then it seems to me that that is a sustainable objection.

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT —There is no point of order. Senator Crossin is quite aware of the spirit of the resolution. What may be your interpretation of one particular side may well be different from Senator Crossin's—as has happened previously during the day.

Senator Kemp —On a point of order, we are interested in the interpretation of the chair. This is why we seek points of order—to seek your interpretation.

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT —I hope you are not reflecting upon the chair. The chair is not able to interpret what is in the senator's mind. The senator is aware of what the spirit of the resolution is. It is up to her to interpret it, and I am not about to start.

Senator Kemp —On a point of order, the President or the Deputy President, the person in the chair, makes rulings. The whip has drawn attention to a particular standing order, and we would like your ruling as to whether Senator Crossin is transgressing that.

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT —I have ruled that there is no point of order. However, I have drawn Senator Crossin's attention to No. 9. I cannot work out how she chooses to interpret it. Senator Kemp, I do not appreciate your sighs and hums and hos. They could be taken as a reflection upon the chair. I am sure you are not intending to do that.

Senator CROSSIN —To carry out the research in the Northern Territory, Mr Textor was being paid $740 a day of Northern Territory taxpayers' money. The contract was arranged by a Mr Paul Cowdy, who worked for the then CLP Chief Minister, Marshall Perron. Paul Cowdy also witnessed Mr Textor's signature on the $740 a day contract. The contract was signed with the Northern Territory Chief Minister's Department on 14 April 1993. There was no tendering process for the contract, which was put together at the behest of the Country Liberal Party.

The same Paul Cowdy now continues to work for the new Chief Minister of the Northern Territory, Denis Burke, as his senior political adviser. What is disturbing, and what also concerns the taxpayers of the Northern Territory, is that so many of the key players who were either directly implicated in the defrauding, or those who must have known about it, continue to play an active role in politics both in the Northern Territory and at the federal level.

I know Denis Burke. He is a decent man. But what I do not understand is why Denis Burke continues to work so closely with people like Paul Cowdy, who was so actively involved in the scam with Mark Textor to use public money for blatant political research on behalf of the Country Liberal Party. Mark Textor has not only been busy in the Territory but his involvement in push polling here in the ACT is well known. His push-polling activities for the Liberal Party in the 1995 Canberra by-election resulted in him and Andrew Robb paying substantial damages and apologising to the Labor candidate. Mark Textor's involvement in push polling raises an important question about the new Chief Minister, Denis Burke, and his apparent—

Senator Coonan —I raise a point of order, Madam Deputy President. Much as I hate to interrupt the free flow of Senator Crossin's contribution this evening, I know that this might only seem to be the case from my point of view, but it seems as if time has stood still here. Are the clocks in fact stuck?

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT —No; every time the point of order is taken the clock is frozen.

Senator Coonan —But they are not moving.

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT —No, because the clock is frozen at present. The speaker has 10 minutes to speak. If you take points of order, you do not restrict the time of the person speaking, you restrict the number of speakers but not that speaker's time. There is no point of order. Senator Crossin, you may continue with three minutes and 23 seconds.

Senator CROSSIN —Senator Coonan, if you know the standing orders so well, you should have known that one as well. What I cannot understand is why Denis Burke continues to work so closely with people like Paul Cowdy. They were politically involved in this Mark Textor exercise. They used public money for blatant political research on behalf of the CLP. As I went on to say, he has been busy in the ACT. His involvement in push polling raises an important question about the new Chief Minister, Denis Burke, and his apparent lack of concern about working so closely with those CLP operatives implicated in defrauding taxpayers' money in the Territory. It is on the record that the push pollster Mark Textor was also used as the Country Liberal Party's exclusive pollster in that 1994 election.

In l994, Denis Burke was the CLP candidate in the seat of Brennan where push polling was used. I do not think it is any coincidence that Mark Textor was working for the CLP in the Northern Territory when push polling was being used. It is inconceivable that Denis Burke would not have known that push polling was being used in his own seat. He may not have approved of it. It may have been out of his control. But now he is the Territory's Chief Minister he has the opportunity to show the Northern Territory that he does not approve of push polling as an election technique and that he does not approve of the misuse of taxpayers funds for party political purposes.

Mr Burke should sever links with any CLP operatives involved in push polling. He should get rid of any other CLP operatives involved in the defrauding of Northern Territory taxpayers. He should make it clear that Mark Textor's special services are not welcome in the Northern Territory, and he should cut Paul Cowdy adrift.

The CLP's defrauding of taxpayers' funds for their own party political research also has federal implications. Mr Gary Nairn, now the Liberal House of Representatives member for the seat of Eden-Monaro, succeeded Shane Stone as the CLP president. According to one of the co-conspirators, Andrew Coward, Gary Nairn received much of the research and, indeed, was present at a number of discussion groups, watching the proceedings on closedcircuit TV—without, I might add, the know ledge of the participants. Textor, Stone, Nairn, from humble beginnings in CLP politics in the Northern Territory, are people now active in conservative politics on a federal level.

If the Liberal Party is prepared to accept Shane Stone as federal president, then they will be sending out a clear message to the Australian community that they condone the defrauding of taxpayers' funds for party political purposes. If the Liberal Party is still prepared to use the questionable services of the immoral and dishonest Mark Textor, then it shows they support push polling.

We know push polling techniques were used on a number of occasions by the Liberals in the recent New South Wales election, and Textor was directing both the polling and advertising strategy for that campaign. The abject failure of that campaign is symbolic of Textor's incompetence, as well as his willingness to use improper polling techniques. The evidence presented today in the Northern Territory further highlights the dishonesty of Mark Textor, and the federal Liberal Party must rid themselves of his questionable services.