Senator FERRIS (3:20 PM) —One of the less pleasant aspects of this place is when people sit very comfortably in glass houses throwing stones, indulging in the politics of division and derision.

Senator Robert Ray —Like working for Senator Minchin when you were running for the Senate. Twenty gorillas that cost you; $20,000.

Senator FERRIS —Senator Ray, long may you sit there in your glass house. I hope you are relaxed and comfortable there, because we plan to leave you there for quite some time yet.

I would like today to talk about tax reform, because that was the issue that we were originally going to address in our taking note debate today. There has been a lot of discussion over the last day or so, in the dozens of hours that are going to be set aside in the debate for tax reform, about the need for tax reform, and in particular the cries from small business and families in this country who desperately want tax reform. In the quotations that have been read into the Hansard already there has been a good deal of evidence about how unfair the tax system would be under reform, how appalling it would be, how divisive it would be for families. But I would like to tell the chamber today about some evidence that we received from the peak body of independent grocers in this country, the people who run the corner stores. They pleaded with the committee that I sat on for tax reform. They said, `We are so badly hurt by the current sales tax regime that we are prepared to look at the GST and give it broad acceptance.'

Senator Faulkner —I have a point of order, Madam Deputy President. You would be aware that the motion before the chair is to take note of the appallingly hopeless and inadequate answers given by Senator Alston in question time today. I ask you to direct Senator Ferris to address the question. Why doesn't she come out, instead of doing this, and defend Senator Alston? That is what she is expected to do.

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT —Senator Faulkner, there is no point of order. This is a wide ranging debate. Those on my left have been as far off the point as you seem to think some others have been. Senator Ferris, please continue.

Senator FERRIS —Thank you, Madam Deputy President. Another stone from a glass house—and, equally comfortably, you will stay there for as long as it suits your people to leave you there. The evidence that we had—

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT —Excuse me, Senator Ferris. Would you like to rephrase that last comment of yours? I am not sure whether you were addressing the chair or whether you were addressing Senator Faulkner. I hope you were addressing Senator Faulkner. Would you please address the chair.

Senator FERRIS —I was, and I am sorry. I will withdraw the comment and address the chair, Madam Deputy President. I would like to say that the evidence that came from NARGA, the national association of independent grocers, was very much the norm for evidence we received from small businesses all around the country. They talked about the difficulties that they faced under the current sales tax regime and the great need for tax reform to unravel the appalling red tape which now grips those small businesses as they try to understand the tax reform system.

However, as much as possible, the evidence that came from unions who were rounded up to give evidence to our committee not surprisingly took a quite contrary view. In fact, the evidence from the Australian Education Union in Tasmania was particularly revealing. When I asked the witness whether they were aware that the 5,000 members of that union would have substantial tax cuts under tax reform, they said no. When I asked whether they were taking that into account in opposing tax reform, they said no. In fact, Ms Hull said:

We are taking that into account . . . PAYE tax people at present are already bearing a substantial brunt in relation to their tax contribution.

We agree, and that is why we are trying to change the taxation system to make it fairer for families and fairer for small business. That is why we want to legislate to give tax cuts to families.

It is quite interesting to hear members of the opposition criticising the government's attempt to change the taxation system when in fact, after the 1993 election, the opposition when in government implemented its most disgraceful taxation changes of all. After promising no GST and after having been elected on that platform, in the 1993 budget Labor increased the rates of wholesale sales tax across the board. In wholesale sales tax revenue in 1992-93, they raised $9.2 billion. But, by the time they left office, they were collecting $12,955 million—an increase of more than 40 per cent on their previous taxation revenue.

Where was the compensation then for low income families? Where were the Senate committees then, with their trade union submissions? Most importantly, where were the Democrats? Australians want tax cuts and they want tax reform. They want to be taxed when they spend and not just when they earn, and they want the Senate to pass legislation that will enable that. (Time expired)