Senator O'BRIEN —My question is directed to the Minister representing the Minister for Transport and Regional Services, Senator Ian Macdonald. Is the minister aware that the Civil Aviation Safety Authority is now restructuring the positions of flying operations inspectors, who are responsible for regulating standards for Australian licensed pilots, to auditing positions? Is he aware that there will be no requirement for the flying operations inspectors to actually fly to assess pilot skills and operating standards but that they will simply audit from the ground an increasingly self-regulated and self-administered industry? When will the government step in to prevent any further erosion of the current levels of pilot and operating standards?

Senator IAN MACDONALD (Regional Services, Territories and Local Government) —I appreciate a question on aviation safety because it does enable me to indicate yet again the confidence the government has in the Civil Aviation Safety Authority and the Bureau of Air Safety Investigation. There were four parts to Senator O'Brien's question. Three of them asked whether I was aware of certain particular incidents. As it is not directly my portfolio, I cannot confess to being absolutely aware of the three matters, although I have read various newspaper reports. I can assure Senator O'Brien, though, that the Minister for Trans port and Regional Services, Mr Anderson, would be aware of those three issues that he raised.

The fourth thing he asked was when the government was going to do something about it. Time and time again I suggest that the worst thing that could happen to air safety in Australia is if the likes of Senator O'Brien or me were to start directing air safety. That is a very technical job. It is a job for technical people to handle. Of course, CASA does have professional people, as does BASI. The government rightly leaves those very technical safety issues to the professionals, who are best able to deal with them.

Senator O'BRIEN —I take it from that answer that the minister is saying that the government would not step in to prevent any further erosion of current levels of pilot and operating standards. If you do not know the answer to this next question, you might take it on notice. Are you aware that the International Civil Aviation Organisation is due to conduct an assessment of civil aviation safety management in Australia in August this year? Does the minister believe that ICAO will endorse the practice of flying operations inspectors being land based auditors?

Senator IAN MACDONALD (Regional Services, Territories and Local Government) —It is a hypothetical question to ask what I expect some international commission might determine at some time in the future. I am not allowed to answer that under Senate standing orders even were I minded to. But can I come back to the first part of Senator O'Brien's so-called supplementary question and repeat yet again that the government properly leaves matters of air safety to the professionals. The day we let Senator O'Brien and others start determining what professional air safety matters should be—

Senator Conroy —Dick Smith?

Senator IAN MACDONALD —Dick Smith was a lot more professional than you, Senator. He knew a lot more about it. You come from the Transport Workers Union. I do not think you even had a truck licence, yet you were in the Transport Workers Union. Mr Dick Smith at least can fly, and he is a very able, very professional Australian. They are the sort of people that we do rely upon to keep our skies as safe as they are.

Senator Hill —Madam President, I ask that further questions be placed on the Notice Paper .