Senator CARR (5:03 PM) —Minister, you have once again managed to combine the question of publicly funded places with privately funded places. You seem to believe that by some sleight of hand this will not be noticed by the education community. I trust that you would appreciate the view that it is not satisfactory, that there has been in fact a reduction of some 21,000 places on the forward estimates, as indicated by former senior officials of the department when these cuts were announced. No matter how much the government tries to duck this issue, there are in fact 21,000 fewer fully funded places available under this government than otherwise would have been the case. Minister, is it not a fact that university operating grants will fall by $590 million from the 1998 level? Is it not a fact, Minister, that in the year 2000 under this bill they will decline by a further $140 million to $730 million—below the funding levels in 1998? Are those not facts?