Senator ROBERT RAY (9:48 AM) —The Senate is evolving every morning into a foreign policy making body. I do not believe that that is the purpose of the Senate. There is an executive and a foreign minister. They make decisions on behalf of the country, and our job is to scrutinise them. There is a whole range of methods by which they can be scrutinised. For instance, the prime committee of this parliament is usually acknowledged as being the foreign affairs and defence committee. It is certainly the biggest, the best remunerated and the best resourced committee in the parliament. I hope that the House of Representatives is still fulfilling that function and not us. That is the appropriate body to take these sort of resolutions through in the first event.

Senator Brown is devaluing the currency of Senate resolutions and the view of this place by every day getting up and moving some new foreign affairs resolution. We have made it quite clear—I do not know whether he accepts it yet—that we will not have those resolutions go through without debate. I think he can at least see the point in that.

Senator Brown —Here's an opportunity to debate it.

Senator ROBERT RAY —I will come to that in a moment. One of the problems is that some of these resolutions are a bit like a curate's egg; they are good in parts. You can agree with part of it and not other parts. Therefore, taking them through without a debate does not give senators an opportunity to express a view as to why, on balance, they may support something with reservations, which can be taken into account when that resolution is carried. We have at least got to the position where the Labor Party—I think the government agrees, but it does not really want to say so—believes that you cannot carry foreign affairs resolutions at the drop of a hat.

I do not think Senator Margetts was surprised that what was regarded as a foreign affairs resolution about torture went through yesterday. We have said that the recognition of international days and the sort of issues Senator Margetts was talking about yesterday are appropriate to go through without debate. They are in recognition of an international day or an international issue. However, we do not believe that resolutions expressing an opinion or calling on the government to do something should go through without debate.

We then have to decide how many of these things we will debate, how long we will debate them and how much Senate time should be put forward in debating them. Inevitably, in part, we have to take into account two factors. The obvious one is whether it is absolutely urgent at the moment for us to pursue these issues. The second one reflects how much of the motion we agree on and how relevant we think the motion is. Certainly part (b) is jumping the gun. My understanding is that the Australian government has not had a request from the Indonesian government to investigate these matters.

I like to put ourselves in reverse. I wonder how we would feel if the Indonesian government set up an inquiry into certain high wealth Australian citizens. Would we feel at all offended if they decided to look into high wealth individuals, especially people who own—

Senator Margetts —If their actions are undertaken in Indonesia or their business is in Indonesia, it might well be appropriate.

Senator ROBERT RAY —I am just asking in the theoretical, Senator Margetts, in terms of national sovereignty, without a request, how you launch such an inquiry. Or are you arguing that this particular family has high investment interests in Australia? Certainly no evidence has been adduced so far that that is in fact the case.

Senator Brown —That's what is being sought.

Senator ROBERT RAY —Senator Brown says that that is what they are seeking. Well there is a limit to fishing expeditions, I have to say. You would need some evidentiary base before you would in fact authorise an inquiry. Senator Brown would respond, if he had the opportunity—he may yet have it—that it may exist, that it may be there. I do not think that is quite good enough in this case.

But, again, what it really comes back to is that, firstly, foreign affairs resolutions should not be carried by this chamber on the nod. Secondly, to successfully carry them, you have to argue the urgency of the matter. Thirdly, you then have to give some substantiation in the issue you are raising that it is actually relevant to the Senate and proper procedure. I do not think it is proper for this Senate at this stage to call on the Australian government to have an investigation into these matters prior to an official request coming from Indonesia.