Senator O'BRIEN (3:39 PM) —by leave—At the conclusion of question time, in the statement by Madam President relating to a question I asked on Monday, 22 June regarding the asking of questions at estimates and the intervention of the Chairman of the Economics Legislation Committee to ensure that part of a question did not appear in Hansard , let me say, having received the answer, that I think further information should be placed on the record. Firstly, it should be noted that the question that was asked clearly was not out of order and that there was no basis for the chairman purporting to rule it out of order. That is a matter which is clearly stated in the President's statement today. That was my view at the time.

The Senate ought to be made aware that what occurred at that time was something which I had not previously experienced. When it was noted that part of the question had been omitted from the Hansard, Mr Logue of my office contacted the Chief Hansard Reporter to inquire as to how that had occurred and, in a letter dated 5 June addressed to me, received the following answer:

Mr Logue of your office has discussed with me the Hansard report of the proceedings of the Senate Economics Estimates committee of 3 June 1998. Specifically, he has referred to the omission at page E216 of certain material which you read in the course of the hearing.

When the committee suspended for the dinner break that day, a copy of your quotation was supplied to the Hansard officer maintaining the log of committee proceedings. However, the Chairman of the committee, Senator A Ferguson, advised the Hansard officer that `only those words that Senator O'Brien asked before he was called to order should appear in Hansard'.

In the preparation of the transcript, the advice from the Chairman was adhered to. I understand that this advice was discussed by the Chairman with the secretary of the committee before it was given to Hansard.

Bernie Harris

Chief Hansard Reporter

It is important to note in relation to this matter that, but for the intervention of the chairman, it is clear that the Hansard would have reflected the full content of the question and, indeed, the question was not out of order. What occurred was clearly an intervention by the chairman to ensure that that part of the question was not in the Hansard . My understanding of proceedings in Senate committees is that it is open to any member of the committee to seek that matters which are referred to in proceedings not be included in the Hansard but that that matter would be drawn to the attention of the committee. As a matter of courtesy, I would have expected that Senator Ferguson would have drawn to my attention, when I returned to the committee following the dinner break, that he had advised, asked or directed Hansard to do that which he had advised, sought or directed them to do, but that was not the case. As I indicated, the first time I noted that the matters had not been recorded in Hansard was when looking at the Hansard the following day.

A great many things occur in this place and in committees where comments made may be the subject of a call to order, but Hansard continues to record them. One would only have to go to answers to questions by Senator Alston who persistently ignores the calls of the chair to cease his answer and continues his answer. I suggest that his answers are recorded in the Hansard. It seems to me that it was quite an unusual step for Senator Ferguson to take to exclude from Hansard that part of the proceedings, the question clearly being in order, the document in fact being affirmed the following day as legitimate and one which I was seeking to ask questions about in order to affirm its veracity or otherwise. All of this occurred in the context of proceedings where there was a persistent refusal to answer questions by the minister, allegedly on the basis that matters were sub judice, notwithstanding advice from the clerk that the question of refusing to answer questions on the basis of sub judice had no basis at all in terms of the standing orders or the practices of the Senate. An advice received by Senator Mackay in that regard had been tabled before the committee.

Madam Deputy President, this matter arose in relation to the waterfront issue. Questions arose about the conspiracy that this government, with others, had been involved in to take action to remove the Maritime Union from the waterfront. A great number of questions were asked on that matter at the estimates—and in this place, and on notice—none of which has received proper answers. In my view the questions have been addressed without proper regard to the standing orders of this place.

It is interesting to note that the proceedings affected by the advice of Senator Ferguson were extensively reported on ABC radio and elsewhere the following day. So, to the extent that this was an attempt to censor the matter, it failed, but it is an important matter nevertheless. It is, I believe, a matter which the Senate and committees should have regard to in relation to how committees proceed and how the chairs of committees behave when dealing with questions, the validity of questions and, certainly, in relation to any directions or requests that might be made of Hansard.

May I suggest that, if it is a view that a matter is not properly in the Hansard, then a chair of a committee, before intervening, ought to have at least a conversation with the senator affected so that the matter is not required to be dealt with in the way that I have had to deal with this matter—that is, by raising it with the President.

Let me say that I cannot find anything in the standing orders which justifies the actions of the Chairman of the committee, Senator Ferguson, in this matter. The President in her answer has not drawn my attention to any parts of Odgers which might relate to that matter. If there are such references I would be very pleased to receive them so I can study them and fully understand the basis for the actions that have been taken.

Let me say that I regard this as an extremely unfortunate incident. I hope that all chairs of committees and all senators will take notice of what has occurred so that these events do not occur again.