Senator SCHACHT —My question is to the Minister for Communications, the Information Economy and the Arts. Has Mr Johns, the ABC managing director, responded point by point to the minister's 900-word diatribe about the ABC's alleged anti-government bias on the waterfront issue? Why did the minister send his letter to Mr Johns rather than to Mr McDonald, the chairman of the ABC board? Is it true that both Mr Johns and Mr McDonald have assured the minister that they are satisfied that the ABC's coverage has been impartial and that the ABC's editorial guidelines are being followed? Is the minister prepared to admit he was just being hypersensitive to the widespread and well-justified scrutiny of the government's waterfront strategy?

Senator ALSTON (Communications, the Information Economy and the Arts) —The answer to the first part of the question is no. Mr Johns did not respond point by point to my request for a point by point assessment. Indeed, in my letter I raised five matters of particular concern which I think do require a detailed response. For example, there was this distinction drawn between promotion and coverage, which is one that has never been drawn before, to my knowledge. Certainly, if it had been, it was clearly not at the forefront of anyone's mind in the ABC because it had to be sent out at short notice to effectively ensure that there was no coverage of a pro-government rally in relation to the waterfront. At the very same time, Carolyn Tucker, on ABC Radio in Brisbane, was out there giving chapter and verse to all those who wanted to attend an anti-government rally; they were welcome to go to St Mary's Cathedral with Father Kennedy at 5 p.m. that evening. I would have thought that was a classic promotion of an event.

There was also an occasion when The World Today conducted an interview with a gentleman, whose name I forget, who was introduced as the Mayor of Burnie. The Mayor of Burnie made it very plain that he very much disapproved of the way in which the government had handled the waterfront issue. He described himself as a conservative person by nature and then went on to further bag the Howard government.

Senator Schacht —What's wrong with that?

Senator ALSTON —What's wrong with that? Come in, spinner! Is it any wonder that Senator Schacht is being groomed for a post-parliamentary career? What is wrong with it is that he was the endorsed ALP candidate for Braddon.

Government senators interjecting—

The PRESIDENT —Senator Alston, just a moment. Order! Senator Alston.

Senator ALSTON —Madam President, I could go on.

Senator Schacht —Keep going. Try going on.

Honourable senators interjecting—

The PRESIDENT —Senator Alston, resume your seat. I have asked the minister to resume his seat while order descends upon the chamber.

Senator ALSTON —The fact is that there were five specific instances which do require a detailed response. The answer that I got from Mr Johns was that the matter would be referred to the board, with no indication that the ABC would come back to me in due course. I therefore do propose to take the matter further. I want to make it plain that, far from people like you being able to pretend that somehow this is a generalised slur on the ABC, it is not. The ABC itself accepts—

Senator Schacht —Come on; you've been abusing them for two years.

Senator ALSTON —You have only to read the letter from Kirsten Garrett to know that the ABC itself concedes that from time to time there are matters that require attention. Anyone can get it wrong. When those matters are brought to the attention of management, then you expect them to examine them carefully.

What I do not regard as an adequate response is to say, `From time to time we do research out in the general community and we ask whether people think we're for or against the Liberal Party or the Labor Party and it basically comes out even so we must be doing something right.' That is not a proper response; it is not the approach—

Senator Cook —This is political interference by you in the ABC.

The PRESIDENT —Senator Cook!

Senator ALSTON —I think you should pay due deference to the fact that Senator Ray has just returned from his job and you should be much more respectful than you are. We certainly think that independence is a very important element for any statutory corporation, but this is not a matter of independence; this is a statutory obligation which the ABC has. Even Senator Schacht's letter to the Australian acknowledged that I have the right to raise matters of bias.

Senator Schacht —You bagged and abused them first, then sent the letter; that's what you did.

The PRESIDENT —Senator Schacht!

Senator ALSTON —I have the right to raise those matters. If that is the fact, what flows from that is that the ABC needs to have in place internal mechanisms that will monitor these matters—not simply have guidelines which may or may not be adhered to—to ensure that those programmers and presenters on the ground are aware of and complying with the requirements.(Time expired)

Senator SCHACHT —Madam President, I ask a supplementary question. The minister has mentioned his letter containing five points. If the minister has not already made it public, would he be willing to table his letter to the ABC for the information of the Senate?

Senator ALSTON (Communications, the Information Economy and the Arts) —It is not what I would regard as a classic example of a supplementary question. I may or may not do that.

Senator Schacht —What's wrong with tabling it? You are afraid to table it.

The PRESIDENT —Order! Senator Schacht.

Senator ALSTON —You see, that is what is so unhelpful about this whole debate, Madam President. When matters are brought to our attention and we raise them, and Senator Schacht, as the opposition spokesman, concedes that it is right to raise them, you then get these generalised statements that you are abusing them.

Senator Schacht —But you abused them first.

The PRESIDENT —Senator Schacht!

Senator ALSTON —that you are abusing them. You can't have it both ways. If you think there is a concern about bias and the ABC does not respond to it in detail, you take that as somehow being a generalised slur. Well, it is not. I regard the ABC as doing a very competent job in a number of areas but, like any other body, it can do better. If it has its own complaints mechanisms that are effective—

Senator Schacht —Table the letter, Richard. You haven't got the courage to table the letter.

The PRESIDENT —Senator Schacht, you are consistently and wilfully in breach of the standing orders.

Senator ALSTON —Madam President, I am surprised that he is not back home trying to salvage that No. 5 spot. One of you is not going to be here—(Time expired)

Senator Schacht —Table the letter.

Senator Alston —I note that Senator Crowley has already left to look after her spot.

The PRESIDENT —There are far too many interjections and discussions being shouted across the chamber.