Senator FORSHAW —My question is addressed to the Minister representing the Minister for Family Services. If $4,000 is the average annual nursing home capital fee that must be paid, can the minister explain what options will be available for elderly Australians whose only asset is their home and who are unable to find tenants and are also unable to obtain a reverse mortgage?

Senator HERRON —I thank Senator Forshaw for the question. Based on preliminary information, the average payment would be of the order of $4,000, with providers in low cost regions charging somewhat less and providers in high cost regions charging somewhat more. Senator Forshaw will be aware that the government will be retaining the arrangement for exempting an estimated 27 per cent of people entering residential care from making capital payments because of hardship or financial disadvantage. As before, the government will continue to pay up to an extra $12 a day to the provider on their behalf.

Having answered Senator Forshaw's question in that context, I should add that the detail will be worked out and that they are arrangements that have been voluntarily entered into between the people going into nursing homes, their relatives and the providers of nursing home care. The detail will be available after it has been determined in consultation with the respective groups.

Senator FORSHAW —It is obvious, Minister, that you really do not have much of an idea. The question that I asked related to people who are obliged to pay the $4,000 fee. It did not relate to people who are not obliged to. It concerned those who are obliged to pay it but are not in the position to either obtain tenants or a reverse mortgage. If you are going to get back to me on that, at least that will be somewhat helpful. But I also ask you this, Minister: can you—will you—give a categorical guarantee that no nursing home resident will be evicted for failure to pay the annual fee? If you can give that commitment, Minister, can you also explain how that will work in situations where people cannot, as I said earlier, pay the $4,000?

Senator HERRON —Madam President, There are hardship provisions. Nobody will be forced, if they have hardship, to pay anything. The reality is that the principle stays. The principle is that those people who can afford to pay should pay. Currently, the taxpayer pays 70 per cent of the cost of nursing home care for 130,000 residents. It is also a fact that the government is approaching it constructively because, over the next 20 years, the number of people over age 65 will grow 2½ times as fast as the general population. The number of people over age 80 will grow nearly three times as fast. So we are taking a constructive approach to it. We are not doing what the previous Labor government did, which was to ignore it. We have to approach it. It is a problem faced by all of us. The alternative is to increase taxation. (Time expired)