Senator McGAURAN(3.32 p.m.) —I listened to all the previous speakers and I listened to them closely. What is the opposition's policy? We did not once hear what they would do to adjust what they consider to be a problem. Senator McKiernan did throw a question across the chamber to me: had I listened to the concerns of the aged care community in Victoria? I said to Senator McKiernan, `I have.' I have allayed their fears about the safety net that this government has put in place in regard to its new policy. Of course, the most criticised area by the other side is the bond system that we have put in place. I have explained the policy to the aged community, and I also taken the opportunity to do so here in this chamber. I have allayed the fears of that particular sector.

Before I explain in detail the safety net that the government has in place, I would like to bring the debate back to the issue and away from the minister. Do not pretend you did not personally attack the minister yourself. You used the word `slagging'. I was present during the fray in question time. I heard you constantly slag, along with your other frontbenchers. Let us get back to the—

Senator McKiernan —Madam Deputy President, I raise a point of order. That is a complete and utter untruth. I have not during today or at any time during the week interjected across the chamber.

Senator Ian Macdonald —That's not a point of order.

Senator McKiernan —He is telling a lie. He is not allowed to do that. I did not interject across the chamber, either during question time today or at any other time during this week. In actual fact, I very rarely interject across the chamber at all.

Senator O'Chee —Madam Deputy resident, I think you are going to rule that there is no point of order. But, during the course of Senator McKiernan's little statement, he did accuse an honourable senator on this side of telling a lie. That is quite clearly unparliamentary. I would suggest that Senator McKiernan be asked to withdraw.

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT —I did not hear you say it, Senator McKiernan. But, if you did—

Senator McKiernan —I did, and I withdraw.

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT —Thank you. The level of language in debate could improve, and a bit less interjecting would be greatly appreciated—especially from my right, Senator Ian Macdonald.

Senator McGAURAN —My case rests. He called me a liar and had to withdraw. He stood up, feigning indignation, to say he has never slagged anyone across the chamber. He did it in his point of order. Senator McKiernan, honestly! You have been here long enough to show your experience and to control your tongue a bit more than that.

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT —Would you care to address the chair, please, Senator McGauran? That might get you out of a bit of trouble, as well. Thank you.

Senator McGAURAN —He has decided to come back—to slag across the chamber, perhaps, if he is provoked.

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT —Just address the chair.

Senator McGAURAN —I will not provoke Senator McKiernan any more, so if he does wish to leave the chamber he can quite safely do so. I want to bring this right back to the core issue: why the government has had the courage to make these major structural changes. It is for two reasons. Firstly, importantly, a reason not lost on anyone in society—Senator McKiernan, you can go.

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT —Senator McGauran, address the chair and the issue.

Senator McGAURAN —Or perhaps, Senator McKiernan, you do want to hear the government's policy. He really does want to hear it. He is genuine after all. Senator McKiernan, there are three reasons that we have introduced this policy. Firstly, because of the estimated sheer growth in the number of older Australians in the next 20 years; secondly, because of how run down nursing homes have become over the past decade; and, thirdly, because of how ill-prepared we are for the estimated future growth in the number of older Australians.

With regard to the future growth in the numbers entering nursing homes, it is no exaggeration to say that one of the great tasks facing the coalition when it achieved government was to plan for this future wave. The statistics are compelling. The number of aged Australians over 65 will grow to some 48 per cent over the next 20 years. To put that in number terms, in 1991 the number of Australians over the age of 65 was two million. Within the next 20 or so years there will be as many as five million. This government, because of these compelling statistics, is planning for the future. In fact, this planning should have been done some 10 years ago.

Closely linked to this is the state of the nursing homes. The previous government was warned as far back as 1993, in the Gregory report, that the nursing home industry needed a capital injection of some $130 million per year over at least the next decade. This government found that nursing homes across Australia needed capital upgrading. They did not meet the fire regulations or the health regulations. There were narrow corridors, there was dingy lighting and there were unhygienic kitchens. More than 40 per cent of nursing home residents were forced to share a bedroom with four or more people. That is the foundation stone on which we have built our policy.

In the short time I have left, I would like to allay the concerns of my Victorian residents—as Senator McKiernan invited me to do—in regard to the safety net. Those who cannot financially meet the bond will be catered for and will have direct access to nursing homes. If people do not meet the financial criteria, if people are under the threshold, we will put aside 27 per cent for nursing homes for what are called `concessional rates'. (Time expired)

Question resolved in the affirmative.