Senator BISHOP —My question is directed to Senator Vanstone, Minister for Employment, Education, Training and Youth Affairs. Minister, was the Minister for Schools, Vocational Education and Training, Dr Kemp, advised by his department in a briefing paper prepared on July 1 1997 that: Australia's participation rate in vocational education programs was substantially below international benchmarks; that for 18- to 24-year-olds Australia would need to increase its efforts by between 27 and 86 per cent to reach international best practice; and that a national growth target of 2½ per cent in government funded clients would not address underlying demand for new apprenticeships and for TAFE places arising from youth income support changes or international benchmarks?

Minister, you attended the Minco meeting: did you receive a copy of this briefing paper? Did you read this briefing paper, and will you now acknowledge that your government's decision to withdraw funding for growth in TAFE was a mistake?

Senator VANSTONE —Senator Bishop, I do not accept the assertions you put at the end of your question, and the government does not accept them. We believe that there are efficiencies in the vocational training system that can be found. We wait to hear from you and your government whether you agree that efficiencies can be found.

You asked me whether Dr Kemp received a paper on 1 July this year. My memory is pretty good but it does not go back to 1 July this year, and it certainly does not ever try to accommodate a list of every brief that Dr Kemp has ever had. You asked me if I was at the most recent ANTA Minco meeting. Yes, I was. Did I see a lot of papers in relation to that? Yes, I did. As to the specific paper that you mention, I will have a look. I will come back to you if I have got anything to add.

Senator BISHOP —Madam President, I ask a supplementary question. Minister, when you look at the briefing paper can you advise whether, in regard to vocational education and training, an expansion of participation should not be as high a priority as an increase in conversion of participation rates into qualification attainment? Doesn't this advice support industry concerns that the Commonwealth government's underfunded new apprenticeship scheme does not adequately address the issue of the quality of training provided?

Senator VANSTONE —Senator, I have indicated to you that I will have a look. If you have more things, as you have indicated in your supplementary question, that you want me to check for you, I will come back and give a response to the assertions that you make. The typical form of you people when asking a question is to make an assertion. I will have a look at it. I will come back to you if I think there is anything I want to add.