Senator VANSTONE (Minister for Employment, Education, Training and Youth Affairs)(9.00 p.m.) —I just want to briefly respond to what Senator Chris Evans said. Of course, during Labor times, we have had boom and bust. Senator Evans is right. We know that boom is very good for the wealthy and the educated and that bust is very, very bad for the low skilled, the unskilled and the people on the margins of the employment area.

Senator Evans would have some experience of understanding what happens in a boom and bust. That is precisely why this government is looking at keeping us away from the boom and bust mentality and getting us back to where we belong, and it is within our grasp to get there. It is within our grasp to get to a long period of stable growth and stable low inflation. That will do more for Australia than the damage done by a boom and bust era.

Senator Evans says that we are taking away services. At the moment, an unemployed person on a benefit is, if you like, competing with all others for the provision of services, and I am talking about something more than simply accessing the database.

An unemployed person would go into a CES, as would other people who are classed as the underemployed, the hidden unemployed or the spouses of people who have jobs. In a sense, the unemployed compete for services. There is not a queue that says, `If you're unemployed and on benefit, come here and we'll deal with you first.' Do not pretend there is, because there is not. They are treated equally with all the others, and they should not be. They should be put first, and we are just the people to put them first.

Senator Evans, do not pretend that they get a priority service now. They do not. When unemployed people walk into the PEPE—the old CES—Drake Personnel or the Brotherhood of St Laurence, they are seeking help. These people have been on benefits and they want a job, so of course they want help. But at the moment, when they go in looking for help, they have to take what is given.

Probably the greatest value of our reform to this system is that these people will be able to walk in with their shoulders back and their head a bit higher because a bucket of money is attached to them. All of a sudden, they will be much more important to the service they go into.

Senator Kernot —That is a terrible view of the world.

Senator VANSTONE —Senator Kernot interjects that it is a terrible view.

Senator Kernot —Of the world.

Senator VANSTONE —Senator Kernot does not agree. But I happen to think and the government believes that, if unemployed people on benefit can go in knowing that the service they are asking for is going to be paid for by the Commonwealth and knowing that them getting the placement is important to this business—because without them getting the placement that business will not get the money—then those people will be much more important to that business than they currently are.

We firmly believe—and you may disagree, Senator Kernot—that, under the changes we want to propose, the Commonwealth will end the segregation that has happened in employment services. That is effectively what has happened. People on a benefit can go to the CES, but they cannot go to get labour exchange services with Commonwealth help from Drake Personnel, Morgan and Banks or any of the other specialised people. Oh no, that is only for the wealthy. We are going to change all that.

All of a sudden, unemployed people on a benefit will be able to walk into any one of those places of their choice and we will pay the bill for them. They will not be segregated any more into employment services which are only provided by the Commonwealth. The opposition might think it is appropriate that there be a Commonwealth provider and that that will do for unemployed people on benefit. We do not. We will pay for them to have as much choice in their employment service provider as has any wealthy person. They will be able to choose who they go to.

They can look jobs up on the database and, if there is a job offered by Morgan and Banks, they can go there and, if Morgan and Banks get them the job, we will damn well pay Morgan and Banks. There is nothing in the system that you want to protect that offers anything like that service to unemployed people on benefit.

So disagree if you like, but do not come and pretend that we are offering a lesser service to unemployed people on benefit. We are not. We are going to end the segregation that you would cast them forever into. We are going to give them the opportunities that other people with more money and more resources have been enjoying for years—opportunities which have enabled them to get first crack at the jobs. They will be able to go into those places knowing that we will foot the bill on their behalf. You can reject our system if you want, but that is the system we want to introduce.