Senator STOTT DESPOJA(6.15 p.m.) —I thank the minister for that answer. I appreciate the clarification. I suspect that Senator O'Chee is interested in James Cook University, being Townsville and Cairns based, and I look forward to a response on that matter also. Minister, I am glad you are concerned about inconsistencies in policies. I did not raise the double HECS for second degrees for that purpose—I was just curious about your government's policy on that issue—but you have raised the matter of policy and consistency and, given your concern about that matter, I suggest that perhaps going to an election and promising, first, to maintain operating grants, second, to maintain Austudy at real levels, third, to maintain the threshold, fourth, to strengthen regional and remote campuses and, fifth, then coming in here and doing all this might seem a touch inconsistent. I am glad that you are concerned about opportunism in that respect.

I take on board, as all my Democrat colleagues do, the fact that many of these changes were set in place by the former ALP government, such as the move to charge full fees for postgraduate fee paying places. I have yet to understand—and maybe this will be fleshed out during the debate—the rationale behind the former government's change in regard to ministerial guidelines. Perhaps this is an opportunity for us to change the guidelines regarding fee paying students, whether postgraduate or—hopefully not—undergraduate. Perhaps opposition senators might be keen to rethink their former policies. Minister, I am more than happy to acknowledge that. They started a process of user-pays education. They entrenched it; and we are just moving on from that point. I think it is sad on both counts.

Minister, you have talked about those students who can afford to pay taking advantage of the opportunity to purchase a place and thus `freeing up'—your terminology—a government funded place in an institution. Do you honestly believe that wealthier students who are awarded a place in a higher education institution—a fully funded government place—will move aside for students from less wealthy backgrounds? I do not necessarily see that freeing up taking place.

The other thing that is important to remember in this debate is that although we are talking about government funded places, even that rhetoric is incorrect these days because we have seen increasingly this government and the former government abrogate responsibility—a responsibility I feel you have—to supply and provide a publicly funded and accessible higher education system. There are other factors that determine participation of those traditionally disadvantaged groups and people from lower socioeconomic backgrounds—and you talked about me referring to the poor. According to most research and surveys, 25 per cent of Australians would qualify as coming from lower socioeconomic backgrounds and yet 6.59 per cent, when it comes to fee paying courses, of lower socioeconomic groups are represented in fee paying courses. So I am glad you at least acknowledge that the option of full and up-front fees is not necessarily available to people who do not have the ability to pay.

I dispute the notion that richer people will buy these places, thus freeing up Commonwealth funded places for people who are less wealthy. I ask you to bear in mind the fact that there are still other barriers to entry to universities—in fact, barriers that this bill seeks to increase in the form of the higher education contribution scheme, in the form of a changed HECS. It is a differential HECS system, an increase overall. You have to remember that the other key to ensuring that people from lower socioeconomic groups can access higher education is the level of financial assistance available. Financial assistance to students has decreased markedly over the years. Again, proposals in your budget seek to further decrease the eligibility of students and the availability of Austudy for Australian students.

So do you really believe that those places are going to be freed up in that way and that people from lower socioeconomic backgrounds are given incentives or options for participating in higher education? I am finding it very difficult to believe that there are anything but barriers facing these people when it comes to accessing higher education.