Senator PATTERSON(3.19 p.m.) —I find this debate amazing when the other side have just been given a very strong message by the public on 2 March that they are out of touch, that the major issue facing Australia is foreign debt and other issues about the increasing gap between the rich and the poor, the fact that we had interest rates running at levels that we have never experienced before in Australia and we have gone through the deepest recession in 60 years. They were the issues Australians out there were concerned about. These people lost the plot and the Australian public knew they had lost the plot. They were saying to them, `We have had enough; get focused and get relevant.'

But today we have seen Senator Ray ask a question here about what Senator Alston is going to be doing when he is overseas. I have to say that I went overseas with Senator Alston, when we were in opposition very early on. It was a trip that was not paid for by the public purse. He spent an enormous amount time in London, before we went on to Israel, going around and speaking to people in the area of communications. I was quite amazed at the level of activity he engaged in then, as a member of the opposition, when he did not have to.

Those on the other side and I know that a minister from the other side was accommodated in the Ritz, one of the most expensive hotels in London, and this was on the public purse. So do not come in here and look at Senator Alston's itinerary, 20 days out from when he goes. Did Labor ministers have all their plans structured and everything they wanted organised 20 days before they went? I do not believe for a minute that they did. Of course Senator Alston would ask people in his department—

Senator Campbell —Peter Cook used to have his itinerary. He said, `No appointments before 10.'

Senator PATTERSON —We remember that one of the ministers used to say, `Only two or three appointments a day and don't start appointments before 10 o'clock.' That is what they did. They are indicating that Senator Alston should have his itinerary planned out beforehand. Of course he will ask his department, `Are there people I ought to go and see? Can you suggest people I should go and see?' Some of them will have travelled overseas and many will be very experienced in reading the literature and knowing who is up to date and who are the most important people in the field. Of course, you would ask your department—you would be mad not to ask your department who you should see. Of course he would do that. Fancy imagining that you could pluck the names out of your head.

He will have people to see whom he has met before and would like to see again. Given the broad responsibility he has in telecommunications and in the arts, he would need to try to get a balance across those things. Those opposite will say he has to work all weekend. He has squeezed in a trip so he has the weekend, because he has indicated that he wants to see something in the arts. That is totally appropriate for a minister for the arts to go and see a production and communicate with people. I did that when I was shadow minister for the arts. I went to France and of course I went to the opera and I went to visit the opera house. It gives you connections and interests. It would be a good idea if Senator Ray went overseas for a change—instead of watching his videos at home—and got some overseas experience.

The other thing that Senator Ray said when he was speaking was that he would be left on a committee looking at the Mansfield report—I think he might have said `legislation'; I will stand to be corrected on that. But if he is saying that he is on a committee and he is going to be looking at legislation, let me tell you what they are going to do. When we had the Telstra bill, that bill should have come to a legislation committee. What did those on the other side do? They played a real trick. They did not comply with convention and send it to a legislation committee; they sent it off to a references committee where they have got the chairman and got the numbers.

That was never done on our side. Legislation went to legislation committees; references went to references committees. They chose to play tricks. That is what, obviously, Senator Ray was saying today was going to happen again—that legislation was going to go off to a references committee. I hope the Australian Democrats will not agree to that again and let legislation go off to a references committee.

As for the answer that Senator Alston gave to Senator Kernot about Telstra, Senator Kernot, one of the things I find really amazing is that I did not hear you bleating when the Labor government sold the Commonwealth Bank—

Senator Kernot —We did.

Senator PATTERSON —or about where the money went to. (Time expired)