Senator CAMPBELL (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for the Environment and Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Sport, Territories and Local Government)(10.47 a.m.) —I think there are a number of points that need to be responded to. I do not intend delaying the Senate. I think if Senator Margetts wanted to have this debated—and I respect that she indicated that it would be declared formal—the debate could have taken place during general business. It would have gone through very quickly just on the voices we heard this morning, except that Senator Harradine quite properly suggested that he wanted to hear a debate before he cast his vote. That is all well and good, but this debate could have taken place during general business. It certainly was not listed for general business, and I do not know whether Senator Margetts sought to make this a general business debate.

This is a very vital issue, but where Senator Brown and, I think, even Senator Bob Collins made a mistake is that there is the corporations power. Senator Brown, in particular, is saying that we should use that power. To make an analogy, that power does exist. It is probably the equivalent to a Ford GT-HO five-litre V8 engine. But when you have a power the other thing—

Senator Bob Collins —I never saw it like that.

Senator CAMPBELL —It is a new idea, Senator Collins. But what you need between that power plant of the Ford GT-HO five-litre V8 engine is an axle. Of course, one of the things we do not have is an axle, which you might say is analogous to some legislation. There is no legislation under the corporations power that would enable this parliament to say to the Western Australian parliament, `We don't like the way you are drawing the boundaries of your national parks.' I well agree with Senator Brown and many other senators around this place about the unique values of Lake Jasper, the inherent beauty of the D'Entrecasteaux National Park. It is a fantastic and most beautiful part of the state that I call home.

Senator Margetts —What about the export power?

Senator CAMPBELL —I will get to that, Senator Margetts. The Manager of Government Business in the Senate (Senator Kemp) is already winding me up, just when I am getting wound up myself. I said by leave in my intervention in the debate, when we said that we would actually support this motion being made formal, that there is that export power.

Senator Margetts —You could require an environmental assessment; you are not doing it properly.

Senator CAMPBELL —Senator Margetts, we will, when we have the power to do that, require that assessment. But at this stage—and I will talk very slowly and use very simple words—the Commonwealth has absolutely no power to get involved. Firstly, there is no proposal for mining. There is a proposal that has gone through the Western Australian parliament to make an excision from a national park. At some stage, there will—

Senator Bob Collins —Fair go!

Senator CAMPBELL —Senator Collins has been a minister for so long that he knows all about it. Senator Collins does not wait until something gets on his desk. He does not abide by the law of the nation. He will presume that one day in the future he will have a piece of paper coming to his desk. He is probably going to sit at his ministerial desk and practise taking action when some triggering activity comes to his desk.

Senator Bob Collins —We know the name of the company. What are you on about?

Senator CAMPBELL —Of course we do, Senator Collins. We know the name of the company, but we actually have to go through a legal process. If we want to propose—and maybe the Labor Party proposes this with the support of the Greens—that we abolish all of the state parliaments and that we abolish all of the legal processes, I am sure people here would advocate that very genuinely. I am sure Senator Brown and Senator Margetts would like to get rid of state environmental protection agencies and get rid of all of the processes that are done at the state level and actually set up a massive bureaucracy here in Canberra to do all of that work.

The reality is that we have set pieces of legislation that we do have to abide by at the moment. They may be wobbly, they may be shaky and they may not work very well, but the reality is that the WA state parliament, whether we like it or not, has the legislative and constitutional control over the national park. They have passed a piece of legislation that it seems a majority of senators may not like.

They will then, I presume, receive a formal proposal to mine within that area. There will then be an environmental impact assessment process triggered at the state level. There may then be a proposal that comes before the federal government in relation to the export of those sands. We will then trigger the due processes under the Australian Heritage Commission provisions, which Senator Collins has already outlined. The minister may then have some power to act. But what Senator Collins is proposing—and I do not even think he genuinely proposes this—is that somehow we sort of overturn that whole process and find some way for the minister to act in the meantime. The minister does not have that power to act. There is no head of power and, where there is a head of power, there is no legislation.

The Commonwealth government puts those views. We suggest that the proposal, as set out in the motion, not only lacks any constitutional validity, but also it just overturns the whole process. If you want to propose, just to sum up, that here in Canberra we establish a system whereby we will be the judge and jury of every single proposal for economic development and environmental protection in Australia, then that is the serious proposal that is incorporated in this motion.

I am sure some people genuinely hold those views; they genuinely believe that perhaps the environment in Australia could be a bit better protected with a mega-bureaucracy and mega-power here in Canberra with the ultimate control of this parliament whereby none of us trust what any of the states do ever again. I suggest that that is not the practical approach.

This government's approach is to cooperate with the states, to work with the states. The federal government is already in close consultation with the various authorities in Western Australia, and the Australian Heritage Commission has worked, as Senator Margetts knows, through the assessment processes in 1991 and 1992 in this area. We have listed these areas.

The Commonwealth is taking its responsibilities seriously. We do care about what happens in those national parks, but we can only act where we have the power and the legislation to do so. I think you assume that, because we have a corporations power or an external affairs power, we can just use that power by edict. Unfortunately, what you do need is a bit of legislation—as I call it, the axle connecting the V8 power to the outcome, which is some action on the ground. That power does not exist.

The export power does exist. I have said that this government may be required, at some stage in the next few months or next few years, to use that power. And, if that is the case, I think that the Minister for the Environment, where he is required to act, will act in the best interests of Australia and Australia's environment.