Senator MARGETTS(11.26 a.m.) —It is probably incumbent on the government to be required to present to the Senate, perhaps in a year's time, a report of how much their current scheme will cost if they are talking about money and if what they suggested is succeeding. Perhaps they should be required to report to the Senate and say why the scheme somehow or other got out of their control.

If you are talking about costs, you should be looking at that. If you are serious about the environment, you do not tie it to the sale of a public asset. If you are serious about landcare, you not only deal with the outcomes of land degradation but also deal with land use and the way it is used. We are talking about measures to prevent river systems clogging up and measures that farmers can use to stop the level of nitrification that is going into the river and water system and the breakdown of soils.

If you are concentrating only on the outcome of trying to fix up the mess, you will continue to come back to this place to find other things to sell if that is the only way you can think of funding it. You will never get on top of it if you are not thinking about land use and the causes of land degradation. That has been the problem all along. It should not be linked to the sale of Telstra. That link is irresponsible. The potential has been presented by the Democrats to use the profits from Telstra to continue to fund anything that you and the public think are important but you do not want to hear about that. Once that portion is gone it has gone.

Basically, you have to start looking at and understanding the issues of what causes the land degradation instead of throwing money at the results and the problems it causes. I would like to see some indication that you actually recognise that it is what you use land for that creates the problems with our rivers, that creates the problems that we end up having to throw money at in the end. So we are talking about the range of landcare issues. We could be talking about fencing, tree planting or a range of issues; it is not just about limestone.

Before you start talking about money, let us talk about the fact that we might cost you $7 million. Come back and tell us whether your scheme has cost more than $7 million in a year's time and let us redebate that. You still have not answered whether or not you are going to look at the tax treatment of landcare in general. Please tell us. Do not say that it is a budget issue; just say whether or not there is any commitment in the future to looking at the cost to farmers of preventing the damage that is going to occur with a whole range of issues, not just the use of lime.