Senator McKIERNAN —My question is directed to the Minister for Science and Small Business, the minister responsible for the Australian Customs Service. I note that when the minister released the review of the Australian Customs Service, the Conroy report, he indicated that he would be consulting widely with interested groups and staff on the implementation of the report's recommendations. Is the minister able to provide any information on the progress of this policy of consultation and, in particular, what opportunities has he had to meet with staff of the Customs Service?

Senator SCHACHT —When the Conroy review was released and tabled in parliament, I announced that I accepted the thrust of the recommendations but would not make any commitment to individual recommendations and would seek considered consultation with my department, including, of course, Customs. When I met with Customs management and the unions in Customs, I made it clear that I wanted full consultation throughout the full organisation of Customs—from senior management to the ordinary staff members at all levels. As part of that commitment, I said I would be willing to participate in discussions with Customs staff to get their views about individual recommendations.

  In the last four or five weeks I have had the opportunity to visit and speak to staff of the Customs Service at broad meetings in each of the capital cities of Australia, including Canberra. My staff estimate that I have spoken to and heard comments from around 2,000 Customs staff during those meetings. I have also had meetings for lengthy periods with the PSU delegates in each of the capital cities.

  My office has received more than 50 submissions directly from Customs Service staff. Within the Customs Service more than 400 submissions have been received from either individual members of staff or groups of staff at the workplace commenting about the recommendations. The PSU will make a major submission to the government about the recommendations, and the management will also prepare a report—as will my own department, DITARD.

  I have found the consultation process to be extremely worth while. An overwhelming majority of staff members accept the need for change in various aspects of customs administration. They feel rather aggrieved and believe that some of the criticisms in the report should have been directed more at management than at them as the ordinary staff. Many of them are concerned about the recommendations dealing with redundancies, and the suggestion in the report that there may be 1,000 to 1,400 redundancies. They are responding in detail to that recommendation.

  I believe that a good atmosphere for change is developing amongst Customs Service staff members. They realised that the Midford-Paramount case last year was not a good episode for the Customs Service and that they have to get on with the job of change. I am very encouraged by that. I am very pleased to be able to take part in those discussions. I am told by customs staff that I may be the first minister for customs in its long history to have actually gone through such a process of meeting so many staff members. Overall, I think we have the basis to get a good outcome on the report, because it is leading to the acceptance by customs staff that the reform process has to be driven as much from the bottom up as from the top down.