Senator CROWLEY —The Minister representing the Minister for Health is no doubt aware of the comments made by the shadow Minister for Health complaining about the proposed changes to health insurance by our Government. In particular he complained of the potential loss of jobs and the extra cost. Could the Minister explain to the Senate how the shadow Minister is wrong in his facts and figures and his interpretation? Further, could the Minister say how much it cost to dismantle Medibank when the previous Government came to office? How many jobs were lost by its callous breaking of an electoral promise? What is the estimated size of medical fraud, which became so easy once the previous Government dismantled the one central Medibank computer that was the most important check against such behaviour? How many medical schemes were there under the previous Government and what was their increasing cost to the community?

Senator GRIMES —I thank Senator Crowley for her question. It gives me an opportunity to comment not only on her question but also on some of the other remarks that have been made here today. The Senate should be reminded of the record of the previous Government in the health insurance area. I well remember sitting on this side of the chamber in 1975 when the Medibank legislation was introduced, and watching the Opposition oppose the introduction of the Medibank levy. In fact, it had sufficient numbers to do so. It opposed that levy and the legislation was defeated. The Governor-General used the rejection of that legislation as one of the excuses to call the infamous double dissolution in 1975. The previous Government marched into Parliament and introduced the same legislation to introduce a levy which it had opposed only a matter of months before.

In the election campaign of 1975 Mr Fraser, the then Leader of the Liberal- Country Party coalition, made this infamous statement in his policy speech: 'We will preserve Medibank'. The previous Government, when it came into power not only dismantled Medibank; it proceeded to introduce over the next seven years no fewer than seven health schemes. I was the shadow Minister representing the Health portfolio in this place. Regularly each year a series of health amendment Bills were introduced and regularly at the end of the debate I said: 'I will see you here again next year. This won't work. This will be too expensive. This will be hopeless'. Regularly every year the Minister for Health, whoever he may have been at the time, felt a new health scheme coming on, and introduced it. We had seven years of disastrous confusion. We had seven years in which no one knew where he stood in relation to health insurance. Medibank was dismantled in 1975, with no regard being paid to the loss of jobs. There was no job program such as the one which has been announced by the Minister for Health, Dr Blewett, in another place today and which will be announced by me in this place in a statement later.

I remind honourable senators that this Government had clearly in its election policy the introduction of a universal health insurance scheme called Medicare. We spelt it out over a period of two years before the last election. I remind honourable senators opposite that we overwhelmingly won that election. The health insurance funds, the patients and the doctors knew what our policy was. Although the scheme will not be introduced till February, Dr Blewett has spelt out, and will continue to spell out, exactly what he and the Government will do in February so that we can have proper discussion. I am pleased to note that the health insurance funds now seem to agree with Medicare because they are very keen to run it. Unfortunately, we will not be able to oblige them in that regard . We will have not only a fair and equitable health insurance scheme, but a system whereby the Government will be able to monitor the overservicing and fraud which are rife in the present health insurance system.

I believe that the situation now is different from that of 1975. I vividly remember in 1975 Senator Baume, who was then the spokesman for the Australian Medical Association in this place, saying: 'Doctors will co-operate with anyone except the Labor Party'. In fact, the majority of doctors are responsible citizens who will co-operate with Medicare. Medicare will be introduced. We will have a fair health insurance system which will last longer than the six months or nine months that the previous Government's schemes lasted. People will have certainty. They will know where they are. We will have at last a fair and equitable economic health insurance scheme. If I have missed anything in Senator Crowley's question, I will seek the information from the Minister and give it to her later.