Mr MURPHY (1:44 PM) —I would like to start by congratulating the member for Wentworth for highlighting a couple of important points which I thoroughly agree with in this debate on the Telstra (Transition to Full Private Ownership) Bill 2003 [No. 2]. First, he made the point that the purchase by Telstra of the Trading Post Group is an acquisition of a media asset, and that should be of grave concern to all of us. I will go into that in some detail in a moment. Second, like the member for Wentworth, I am someone who comes from a country background. I was born and raised in a little country town called Dunedoo.

Mr King —I know it well.

Mr MURPHY —The member for Wentworth says he knows it well. It is a lovely town, and I know that the people who live around my old town do not get the best mobile service. In terms of this universal service obligation of Telstra, which I am holding here, I am sure they have reservations about the full privatisation of Telstra. Although the member for Wentworth will support the full privatisation—and I respect his position, as a member of the government, for so doing—he is certainly on the money with regard to expressing his concerns about a telco purchasing a media asset like the Trading Post Group. After all, what is Telstra's game? As a telco, in line with the universal service obligation policy statement that they issued, their job is to ensure that all people in Australia—whether they live in Dunedoo, Vaucluse or Five Dock—have reasonable access, on an equitable basis, to standard telephone services, pay phones and prescribed carriage services. That effectively means your home phone, your mobile phone, Internet and broadband access. That is what we would all expect to have.

Even within my own electorate—I live in Wareemba—when I make calls on my Telstra mobile phone, the success rate for making or receiving a call without the call dropping out is only about 75 per cent. So 25 per cent of the time when I am on my mobile phone at home, the call drops out. When I drive to Canada Bay, which is only about a kilometre from where I live near Hen and Chicken Bay by road, and pass Barnwell Park Golf Club, I cannot get a service on my Telstra phone. It drops out nearly every time. If I go over to Concord it drops out. That is within my own electorate, in Sydney, with Telstra. I know this is less of a concern for people who live in Sydney, but in terms of their universal service obligation I question whether Telstra are actually meeting their obligations. Yet they are hell-bent on privatising this media giant.

A lot is being made of the implications for the shareholders if we do not fully privatise Telstra. I stand here in the House of Representatives today and say that we are all shareholders in Telstra. We all benefit from the hundreds of millions of dollars generated by the services that Telstra provides, year in and year out, and I do not believe that selling Telstra for a reputed $30 billion one-off payment is going to solve the problems of the government. It is tragic that some members of the government—certainly members of the National Party—have been trumpeting where some of this money could go, when the government's own policy is to use the sale proceeds to reduce government debt. We have had members in this House talking about where some of this money could go. I just heard inter alia yesterday the member for Flinders, in his contribution in this debate, saying that he would like $3 billion—10 per cent of the $30 billion—to be ploughed into aged care and the like. I point out to him and others that the Department of Finance and Administration has confirmed that spending the proceeds from the Telstra sale would worsen the budget balance and would be against government policy.

I am very concerned about this when someone has an interest in the media, and I have spoken many times in this House about my concerns with the Broadcasting Services (Media Ownership) Bill. If I had any worries about our two biggest media moguls in Australia getting their hands on more of the commercial media, I have got grave reservations regarding the possibility of Telstra buying Fairfax, PBL or News Ltd, and the implications that would have for our democracy. This House of Representatives, the people's house, is crucial to not only the public interest but also the future of our democracy. The House of Representatives is, in my view, just as critical as the people who sit up here to my right and scrutinise everything that we do—

Mr MURPHY —For the member for Paterson, the media report on what goes on in this chamber and they scrutinise everything we do. In my view, their role is equally vital in a healthy democracy. That is why I feel so passionate about the Broadcasting Services Amendment (Media Ownership) Bill 2002 [No. 2] which is currently being frustrated in the Senate. As you know, that bill will potentially allow News Ltd—Mr Murdoch's News Corporation company—to buy a free-to-air television network and retain all his media interests. That bill would also allow Mr Packer's PBL company to buy Fairfax, for example. I think everyone, irrespective of their politics, should be very concerned about that.

Mr King —Hear, hear!

Mr MURPHY —I am pleased to hear that the member for Wentworth supports me on this because I am keenly awaiting the time when that bill will go back to the Senate for a second vote. That bill has the potential to become a double dissolution trigger for the federal election to be held later this year or early next year. I think that, in the public interest, the government should be doing something to abandon that bill. I have nothing against our two biggest media moguls but it is frightening to think that they could own even more of Australia's commercial media than they presently own. You also have this giant Telstra that we are debating today, which potentially could, if it wanted to become a media player, buy out Mr Murdoch or Mr Packer. It does not matter how you vote; everyone must be concerned about the implications for our democracy if that bill is allowed to go through, otherwise Telstra is going to become a very large media player and be able to buy more of the commercial media.

I have said time and again in this House that, on most days, most of us turn on a radio station, open up a newspaper and watch a free-to-air news bulletin on television. Yes, we also look at the Internet and, yes, we get news and information from other sources but, in the main, it is the traditional media that we listen to, observe and read every day. That influences the way we think and vote.

Mr King —It is 101.7.

Mr MURPHY —Yes, 101.7. Even more disturbing in this debate on Telstra is that there are reports in the media—I put a question on the Notice Paper yesterday to this effect—that ABC management are contemplating axing ABC Radio National so they can save some money. That should be of grave concern to us because, as I keep saying, the media is crucial to a healthy democracy.

In relation to the concerns of the member for Wentworth about the purchase of the Trading Post Group by Telstra, experts have said that the amount of $636 million paid by Telstra for the Trading Post Group represents something like 13 times the company's EBITDA figure and is way beyond the expected price of such an acquisition. Telstra's trading price closed yesterday at $4.71. If you applied to Telstra the arithmetic as has been applied in the acquisition of the Trading Post, you would have to ask yourself, `Why isn't Telstra's price more than $9 today?'

I think all of us, as shareholders in Telstra, ought to be very concerned that Telstra, which is supposed to be ensuring that we all have reasonable access to home phones, mobile phones, the Internet and broadband, is now becoming a media player.

Mr King —Buy Telstra shares!

Mr MURPHY —I am not going to recommend that people go out and buy Telstra shares because we are all Telstra shareholders. Why should we be sold down the river, especially people in the country—where the member for Wentworth and I grew up; I grew up in Dunedoo—who do not get a good service? As I said, in my electorate I certainly get an imperfect service on my Telstra mobile phone. Telstra seems to want to become an even bigger player than our two biggest media companies in Australia. That is of very grave concern to me and I believe it should be of grave concern to all of us, because the media is vital in a healthy democracy. I am glad that the Deputy Prime Minister has walked in because I think his electorate takes in Dunedoo, my old home town.

Mr Anderson —Oh really? It does.

Mr MURPHY —My understanding is that the people of Dunedoo do not get the best services and that they have not been looked after in terms of the universal service obligation policy statement of Telstra. I hope you do something for the people of Dunedoo because, as I was saying before you came into the chamber, in my electorate of Lowe, I get a very imperfect service on my Telstra mobile phone. In Five Dock, Canada Bay and Concord the service is fairly ordinary.

Mr Anderson —Try the competition!

Mr MURPHY —I am glad you raise the idea of competition because your government is quite prepared, under the media ownership bill, to allow our two biggest media moguls to get even more control of the traditional media, and the commercial media is vital to our democracy.

Government members interjecting—

Mr MURPHY —I am glad the members of the government are listening to what I am saying. We should all be concerned at the possibility of further media concentration and the implications that has for our democracy. As I said, if people are worried about either Mr Murdoch or Mr Packer getting even more control of the traditional media in Australia, we should all be paralysed at the thought that Telstra might buy Fairfax, PBL or News Ltd because that would have diabolical consequences for our democracy.

I hope that members of the government and you, Prime Minister, do not pursue the media ownership bill in the Senate. As a person with a passionate interest in democracy, that really concerns me. I know what they do and you would know the way the media are behaving at the moment in relation to your own position as Prime Minister and a potential challenge from Mr Costello.

The SPEAKER —Order! The member for Lowe should make his remarks relevant to the bill.

Mr MURPHY —It is very relevant. The media play a vital role in providing news and information to all Australians and that has a big bearing on our democracy.

The SPEAKER —Order! The member for Lowe.

Mr MURPHY —Just remember that those who carry your coffin—

The SPEAKER —Order! The member for Lowe must not argue with the chair or he will find himself out of the chamber. I point out to the member for Lowe that my interruption was because it is well after 2.00 p.m. and I am therefore proposing that the debate be adjourned. The debate may be resumed at a later hour and the member for Lowe will have leave to continue speaking when the debate is resumed.