Mr LEO McLEAY (9:22 AM) —Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise to support both the amendment and the motion. It is a shame that we are getting this reform at last through a manner of blackmail by the government over the finances of the parliament, but I guess that in a sense if you make progress you probably should not complain about how it comes about. I recall that in 1988 Speaker Joan Child and her chief of staff at the time, the late John Porter, had a view that what they wanted to do when the parliament moved from the old building up to here was to revamp the parliamentary administration. They had the view, which I supported as the Deputy Speaker, that, if the parliament was moving into this new building with the incredible increase in staff that was occurring in that move, we should change the parliamentary administration. As an example of the way that the staff increased, I recall one day signing a warrant that I think approved 40 new gardeners when we were moving from the old house up to here; they were people for the external grounds area. In the old building I think we had two gardeners. That was the sort of size of change in the parliamentary departments that occurred when we moved up here.

It was absurd when we made that change that we should stick to the rather archaic position that the parliament had had in the parliamentary service since 1901. In the old days in the old house, I think the Secretary of the Joint House Department was a class 11 clerk, which is a current SOG B. I think that now the Secretary of the Joint House Department is an SES Band 2 and gets paid more than a member of parliament. So there has been a dramatic increase in the number of people, there has been a dramatic increase in the cost of the parliamentary administration and in the years since Federation to now, particularly in 1988, there has been a great amount of micro-economic reform occurring in the Public Service. You had the parliament and the government saying to the Public Service that they had to change, that they had to come into the modern era, and the only places that did not want to come into the modern era were the parliamentary departments. Even with the best will of Speaker Child and others, we found that her position was defeated in the Senate, and it was with the active participation of a clique of people in the parliamentary departments. That did not include people in the House of Representatives: they actually thought that reform was a good idea. I do not think they thought all of the reform was a good idea but they did think that reform was a good idea. People in the Senate said that this would occur over their dead bodies. Well, I hope that they are happy today.

What Joan Child tried to do has now come to fruition and we should be very pleased about that. Along the way, as I recall, a number of other people tried to get some change. When I was the Speaker, to try to move this along a bit, I appointed a committee of backbenchers to look at reform. I appointed the then member for Aston, who has unfortunately passed on, as the chairman of that committee. I said to the House at the time that there was no plot in this and that what we wanted to do was get something that was good for the parliament and something that was effective for the parliament. I agreed to be bound by whatever decision that committee came up with. Members on both sides of that committee came up with support for a proposal to amalgamate and reform the parliamentary departments, but once again it foundered in the Senate. It foundered with a number of people in the Senate taking views that they had never expressed publicly before. I find myself in a rather interesting position in that on the weekend Alan Ramsey quoted me with some support.

Mr Latham —Say that again?

Mr LEO McLEAY —It surprised me as much as it did you, Mark. I must say my wife was of a view that maybe it was time to leave home. She said, `To see Alan Ramsey quoting you with support, Leo, is rather a funny thing. Maybe I ought to reconsider all the things I've thought in my life.'

Mr Latham —Buy a lottery ticket.

Mr LEO McLEAY —Buy a lottery ticket and get lucky at last! I want to read something from a speech which I think is the part that Ramsey quoted. In that speech in 1994, when we were talking about a further attempt by Speaker Martin to reform the parliamentary departments, which followed on from the work that I and others had done in the previous parliament, I said about the opposition to this proposal:

the committee—

I am pleased to see that on Thursday, 14 August 2003 the work that Joan Child started in 1988 has come to fruition. Mr Speaker, I congratulate you and the President on the fact that you have achieved this reform. I congratulate the government, not on the way that they have done it but on doing it. At last we seem to have overridden that small clique of people. Maybe some of those senators who had the wrong point of view about autonomy have left the Senate. Life does not seem to change over there all that much but it seems to have done so at last. I think this will bring the parliamentary departments into the modern era.

The challenge now is for the parliament, for you, Mr Speaker, and for the President to choose a good person to lead this new organisation. Reform of course should never stop; reform should continue on. Now that you have achieved this reform, Mr Speaker, you might consider some of the reforms that have occurred in other parts of the world. I think a good thing for this parliament would be to look at moving towards a parliamentary commission. I know my colleague the member for Chifley has a proposal for an appropriations and staffing committee of the House of Representatives, like they have in the Senate. That is a move on the way towards achieving that. However, I think having a parliamentary commission where members, senators and the presiding officers are all part of ensuring that we move this place forward is a good way to go. I know that, as a presiding officer, Mr Speaker, you probably do not think that is a terrific idea. I must say that, when I was a Speaker, the idea of someone else coming around and telling me how to run my department was something that I never particularly liked.

Mr Jenkins —We have had a conversion!

The SPEAKER —I thank the member for Scullin for his support!

Mr LEO McLEAY —As Second Deputy Speaker Jenkins says, one always gets a conversion after one has left the job. Mr Speaker, you might pass this on to whomsoever is your successor: if they want to achieve some reform here, maybe a parliamentary commission is the way to go. On reflection—or having a conversion as my colleague says—a parliamentary commission is the way to go, like the one they have in New Zealand and like the House of Commons Commission; and I think the Canadians have one too. In most of the larger, more democratic Westminster type parliaments, both members and the presiding officers are involved in some of the important decision-making proposals for parliament. It will give strength to the work of the presiding officers. It will help the presiding officers fight off moves like the current ones by the government to cut your budget and force reform on you in that way. I think a parliamentary commission would be a way that would take us a bit further than we are now.

Mr Speaker, I commend you and the President on the changes that you have made. I commend the House and the Senate for supporting this motion. I think that Joan Child will be very happy. I also think that this is a very fitting testament to the work of John Porter, who, like your current chief of staff, Mr Speaker, was both a parliamentary officer and a chief of staff to the Speaker. When people come from the parliamentary administration and work in the Speaker's office, they actually see a bit of light, and I think that the work that John Porter did in 1988 with Joan was the precursor to all of this. I congratulate you, Mr Speaker, and I congratulate the House. I am very happy to support the motion.

The SPEAKER —I thank the member for Watson. I think it is fair to observe that the congratulations should be extended not only to former Speaker Child but also to former Speakers Halverson and Martin; in fact, also to the member for Watson in his role as former Speaker and for the role that he played in this work.