Mr PYNE (5:26 PM) —This afternoon I would like to ask the Australian Labor Party what has happened to the money that people donated in good faith to the Carmen Lawrence defence fund. In the interests of accountability the Leader of the Opposition, who played an integral role in the establishment of this defence fund, must disclose to the House the answer to several critical questions regarding the status of the defence fund. He must also explain what will happen to those funds now that the Commonwealth is likely to be liable for all of Carmen Lawrence's legal costs for her representation in the Marks Royal Commission.

Last month Justice Burchett delivered his orders in Vass v. the Commonwealth, a civil action regarding the liability of Carmen Lawrence's legal fees as a result of the Marks Royal Commission. As a result of these orders, it is likely that the Commonwealth will be liable for that portion of Carmen Lawrence's legal fees that were not previously approved by the parliament. The train of events that led to the establishment of the Carmen Lawrence defence fund started on 8 June 1995, when the Keating-Beazley cabinet decided that the Commonwealth would be liable for former Minister Lawrence's legal costs.

Later that month, then Attorney-General Michael Lavarch announced that the Commonwealth would also fund an action in the High Court challenging the legality of the Marks Royal Commission. On 28 September 1995, the coalition confirmed it would oppose legislation making taxpayers liable for these legal costs incurred in relation to challenging the validity of the royal commission in the High Court. The Democrats also announced that they would insist on parliamentary approval for the payment of former Minister Lawrence's legal costs. From that time, various senior ministers, Carmen Lawrence, Gareth Evans and Kim Beazley, made statements about the issue of Carmen Lawrence's legal fees that led the public to believe that former Minister Lawrence faced a crisis that could result in her personal bankruptcy. Gareth Evans whipped up hysteria with comments like, `She could be faced with bankruptcy.' On 3 December 1995, then Minister Beazley was reported in the Canberra Times as follows:

Then there is a quote from former Deputy Prime Minister Beazley:

But, even when they made those statements, did they know that in fact this would never be the case? In fact, did they not already know that the government was locked into paying the legal fees because cabinet had already made that decision? Indeed, on 29 November 1995, former Minister Lawrence claimed:

In truth, it seems that former Ministers Beazley, Evans and Lawrence were all aware that cabinet had decided the Commonwealth would pay the entirety of Carmen Lawrence's legal fees. They were also most likely aware that the Commonwealth would be forced to pay, irrespective of parliament's decision. Years later, even Gary Gray admitted:

So, despite former Minister Beazley's protest that it was not Labor's `intention to fund that element of Mrs Lawrence's legal expenses by any other method than ultimately a recourse to parliament,' he was, either by accident or by design, circumventing the superiority of parliament over cabinet by creating an implied contract between the government and Dunhill Madden Butler that their fees would be paid by the Commonwealth.

In response to the hysteria that had been manufactured by the Labor Party, on 5 December 1995 the Carmen Lawrence Defence Fund was established by Gary Gray, the general secretary of the Labor Party, with two other trustees, including the now New South Wales Minister of State, John Della Bosca.

Ms Kernot —So what?

Mr PYNE —So what? You might well ask the question. You will find out why. If you had given money to the Carmen Lawrence Defence Fund, wouldn't you want to know how it was being spent? We will get to that. From that time, money flowed to the Carmen Lawrence Defence Fund from members of the public, who were led to believe by senior ministers that Minister Lawrence was facing bankruptcy. Evidence produced in the Federal Court on this matter indicated that the Carmen Lawrence Defence Fund has a balance of about $100,000, even though some media reports had previously suggested that the defence fund had collected about $240,000.

Mr Albanese —Mr Acting Deputy Speaker, I rise on a point of order, My point of order goes to relevance. I wonder when the honourable member will mention the fact that the member for Fremantle was recently found innocent.

Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER (Mr Andrews)—The member will resume his seat. There is no point of order.

Mr PYNE —I understand that on grievances there is no such thing as relevance, but nevertheless—

Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER —I will decide that, member for Sturt!

Mr Albanese —Mr Albanese interjecting—

Mr PYNE —I have not gone to the efficacy or the veracity of Carmen Lawrence —

Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER —Order! The member for Sturt and the member for Grayndler will cease the cross-chamber interjection.

Mr PYNE —I will make the point to you, Mr Deputy Speaker, that at no stage in this speech will I comment on the veracity of Minister Lawrence. I am delighted that she has been found innocent of the changes levelled against her. My point is about the money in the Carmen Lawrence Defence Fund, which is entirely separate from her being found guilty or innocent by any court in the land.

The true balance of the Carmen Lawrence Defence Fund is only one of many unanswered questions. There are several other critical questions that the Leader of the Opposition must answer. Firstly, as the legal fees have not been paid to Dunhill Madden Butler, where are the proceeds of the Carmen Lawrence Defence Fund? Are they sitting at Curtin House, earning income for the Labor Party? Does the Labor Party expect that the Carmen Lawrence Defence Fund will not have to pay the legal fees? In which case, has a fraud been perpetrated on those who donated to the fund, believing that they were doing so to stave off the potential bankruptcy of Carmen Lawrence? If the Labor Party expected the Commonwealth to pay, why were Gary Gray and former Ministers Evans and Beazley promoting the idea that former Minister Lawrence was facing bankruptcy? Why did former Minister Beazley whip up hysteria about Carmen Lawrence's alleged potential bankruptcy when, as a cabinet minister, he was a part of the decision making process that had committed the Commonwealth to paying the debt? Has any money been drawn from the Carmen Lawrence Defence Fund? If so, if it has not been drawn for the purpose of the payment of legal fees, what other purpose could funds be directed to? Are the donors aware that these funds have not been applied to date for Carmen Lawrence's legal fees? Was the Carmen Lawrence Defence Fund a pre-election ruse designed to deflect attention from the issue of her veracity and to create sympathy for her?

The public and the donors to the Carmen Lawrence Defence Fund may well ask why the proceeds have not been used for the purposes for which they were collected. They may also care to ask about interest earned on the fund and whether administration charges have been made. It would also be expected that, if indeed any payment has been made from the Carmen Lawrence Defence Fund—

Mr Albanese —Mr Deputy Speaker, I rise on a point of order. The member is out of order under standing order 80.

Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER —I ask the member for Sturt to refer to the honourable member for Fremantle by her electorate. If the honourable member for Sturt is referring to a proper name of a fund, then he is entitled to do that.

Mr PYNE —Indeed I am referring to the trust of the Carmen Lawrence Defence Fund. It would also be expected that, if indeed any payment has been made from the Carmen Lawrence Defence Fund, the member for Fremantle would make the appropriate declaration on the register of memb rs' interests.

Mr PYNE —Well, of course. Why wouldn't she make a declaration on the register of members' interests? If she has taken a benefit from people raising money to pay her legal fees, that is something to be declared. Maybe you will learn that in the course of your career.

Mr Deputy Speaker, if you were one of the people duped into giving money to the Carmen Lawrence Defence Fund, wouldn't you want to know whether the money was spent on her legal fees? The Leader of the Opposition, the member for Fremantle and Gary Gray owe it to those people to tell them whether it is going to pay for Carmen Lawrence's legal fees or whether it will go to $100,000 of direct mail from Curtin House at the next election. The fact is that the Carmen Lawrence Defence Fund was established to pay that part of Carmen Lawrence's legal fees that parliament refused to pay, and the funds should be used for that purpose. If it is not to be used for that purpose, then the public have a right to know for what purpose it will be used in the future.