Ms MACKLIN —My question is to the Minister for Family Services. How much money does the government expect to raise from older Australians through the extra daily nursing home fee? Is it the case that none of this money will go to improving the quality of nursing homes? Will the government reconsider and redirect this money into Australia's nursing homes?

Mr Kerr —Ah, ha! The new member for Casey!

Mr Howard —I wouldn't talk too much about swapping seats; you had a mate who did that!

Mr SPEAKER —The Minister will give his answer and the crosschat will cease.

Mr WARWICK SMITH (Minister for Family Services) —The reason why the country is in difficulty with regard to funding for nursing homes is that the opposition had 13 years to address the issue.

Ms Macklin —Mr Speaker, I raise a point of order on the question of relevance. It was a very specific question about how much the government is getting from these nursing home fees.

Mr SPEAKER —There is no point of order.

Government members interjecting—

Mr SPEAKER —I ask members of the government to remain silent.

Ms Macklin —How much, Warwick?

Mr SPEAKER —The honourable member for Jagajaga has addressed her question; I ask her to remain silent.

Mr WARWICK SMITH —I can well appreciate why they are so sensitive, because this is the graph that tells the story. That is your neglect. That is why people in this country—

Mr Beazley —Mr Speaker, I raise a point of order which goes to the question of relevance. The question that was asked was how much the government expected to raise and whether the money is going to go to improving the quality of the nursing homes; if not, will they redirect it in that direction. We are asking specific questions here.

Mr SPEAKER —There is no point of order. The minister is entirely relevant.

Mr WARWICK SMITH —As I was saying, it is absolutely necessary because of your neglect to address the need for capital needs in nursing homes. The accommodation charges I have indicated over the four-year period provide the same amount of money as was required by the Gregory benchmarks. These funds will be applied by nursing homes to the capital upgrades. I have announced an additional $20 million—

Ms Macklin —Mr Speaker, on a point of order: this question has nothing to do with capital funding. It is about the extra daily fee.

Mr SPEAKER —The member will resume her seat. The answer is entirely relevant. Minister, have you concluded your answer?

Opposition members interjecting—

Mr SPEAKER —Members of the opposition will remain silent.

Mrs Crosio —Tell the truth!

Mr SPEAKER —The honourable member will withdraw that remark.

Opposition members interjecting—

Mr SPEAKER —You might remain silent. I accept that you were not accusing the minister of dishonesty. There was an implication that you were, but I understand that you were not.

Mrs Crosio —I expect every politician to tell the truth.

Mr SPEAKER —I would hope they do.

Opposition members interjecting—

Mr SPEAKER —I suggest that honourable members of the opposition remain silent, and I suggest that it is a good idea if you do not make implications. It was that to which I was drawing attention.

Mr WARWICK SMITH —There seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding by the opposition. The money raised by daily fees goes to nursing homes; it does not go to the government. It goes to upgrading nursing homes because of your neglect. The range of other matters that I have announced already for the benefit of the aged in this country improved markedly their position compared with what you did in the 13 years you had to look after the aged in this community.

Ms Macklin interjecting—

Mr SPEAKER —The member for Jagajaga will remain silent.

Mr WARWICK SMITH —You know that this confected indignation and outrageous interjections are all to do with politics, nothing to do with caring for the aged in this community.