Mr LATHAM —My question is also to the Minister for Employment, Education, Training and Youth Affairs. Can the minister confirm that the states and territories have failed to sign a new ANTA agreement due to the Commonwealth's refusal to commit growth funding? Is it not true that, despite the minister's meaningless rhetoric about his concern for students who do not pursue higher education, the Commonwealth is imposing cuts of $28 million on New South Wales TAFE, $18 million on Victoria, $21 million on Queensland and $28 million on other states and territories, plus breaking the previous government's commitment to growth funding for a decade. Does this not represent, as your Victorian colleague Phil Honeywood has said, the biggest cost shift to the states since federation, leaving your claims to the contrary as nothing more than the work of a spin doctor?

Dr KEMP —What a Kylie Minoguer: I should be so lucky!

The member for Werriwa has to learn to do his research. I have said this to you before in question time. I met with the states and territories last Friday and the states and territories, with their ministers, signed off on a new Australian National Training Authority agreement to cover the next three years. The terms of the agreement, and I quote from clause 29, say:

The Commonwealth and the states/territories will continue to provide funding stability for the national VET system and growth will be achieved through efficiencies.

This, of course, is what I have been telling the House month after month. The member for Werriwa down there—the young and the restless—could not be bothered listening to the answers and cannot be bothered finding out what is actually going on in relations between the Commonwealth and the states and territories. He did not even know—

Mr Costello —Would you pass him, Professor?

Dr KEMP —He would be a fail—definitely a fail—at any level of the educational system. He could not even be bothered finding out that there had been a meeting and an agree ment between the Commonwealth and the states and territories. The tactics committee is not going to allow you to get up again if you are going to perform like that.

This government is all about expanding education and training opportunities for young Australians. Not only are there 50,000 new places in the TAFE system this year, 43,000 of which are funded by the Commonwealth, but also the states and territories agreed in this meeting last Friday to continue to grow their systems through efficiencies. This is one of the major differences between the government and the opposition. The opposition, as we know, has absolutely no compunction at all in reaching its hand into the pockets of the taxpayers year after year, taking out tens of millions and hundreds of millions of dollars, plunging the country into debt and ripping that money away from Australian families to spend it on schemes when growth can be obtained through efficiencies.

The Australian National Training Authority, as you well know, has done an analysis which demonstrates that if every state were to operate its TAFE system at the level of the most efficient, which is Victoria, there would be efficiency gains of some $300 million to be obtained. The Commonwealth is not going to continue to pour hundreds of millions of dollars of taxpayers' money down the drain until that growth can be brought forward out of savings from those efficiencies. The ministers of the states and territories agreed to that last Friday. Mr Aquilina, from New South Wales, was unable to be present.

Mr Latham —How could he agree to it if he was not there?

Mr Crean —So they haven't signed.

Dr KEMP —I am assuming that New South Wales is very eager to conclude this agreement and that he will be more than willing to agree.

Mr Latham —So they didn't sign it, you lying thing.

Mr SPEAKER —The member for Werriwa! Order!

Dr KEMP —Let us get it quite clear. Are you saying New South Wales will not be agreeing to grow their TAFE system through efficiencies next year?

Mr Latham —You said they already had. You said they had!

Dr KEMP —Are you saying that?

Mr Tanner —You said they had.

Mr Latham —You absolute liar! You absolute liar!

Dr KEMP —The Labor party is opposed to this—

Mr SPEAKER —Order! Withdraw that remark.

Dr KEMP —Is that your view—that the Labor Party is opposed to this?

Mr SPEAKER —Order! The honourable member for Werriwa will withdraw.

Dr KEMP —Mr Speaker, it was signed off by the states and territories.

Mr SPEAKER —Minister, resume your seat. The honourable member for Werriwa has withdrawn?

Mr Latham —I withdraw.

Mr Allan Morris —Mr Speaker, I raise a point of order. I think the minister is asking you a question. The minister is asking you a series of questions. Perhaps you would answer them for him.

Mr SPEAKER —I thank the honourable member for Newcastle. The minister is aware of the conventions of the House.

Dr KEMP —The ministers of the states and territories, having signed off on the new ANTA agreement, will be submitting that agreement to their cabinets for acceptance.