Mr CAMPBELL —My question is addressed to the Minister for Workplace Relations and Small Business. Minister, you will now be aware of the intimidation reminiscent of Mafia style union busting employed in America that is being used by the American company Arco in Emerald in relation to the Gordonstone mine. Do you accept that there is something intrinsically un-Australian about the tactics being used by Arco, or is this, in your view, an acceptable consequence of your preferred industrial relations outcome?

Mr REITH —I am certainly aware of the allegations. I saw the Sunday program. I am also aware of the statement which the company has made since then and I also heard myself, as you would have done if you heard the program on Sunday, the responsible police officer saying that in this particular series of events there has been a lot of allegations, some of which are unfounded. I am not in a position to assess the particular events surrounding the events there. Obviously no-one would condone some of the tactics if those allegations prove to be the case.

Mr Fitzgibbon —Which ones?

Mr Bevis —Which ones do you support?

Mr REITH —Well, one of the allegations made was that people were being stalked, effectively, and obviously no-one would condone that and obviously I do not. However, let me go on to say that the claim that this is somehow representative of the government's Workplace Relations Act is, of course, a completely false claim, a completely wrong claim.

Mr Bevis —What are you going to do to stop it?

Mr REITH —As I reminded members, to their embarrassment, yesterday, the fact is that the package that we brought in had the public endorsement of your latest recruit. To say that the Australian system of industrial relations and labour market regulation is akin to the American one quite frankly shows a complete ignorance of what we have done and the nature of the system that we inherited.

Mr Campbell —On a point of order, Mr Speaker, the minister implies that Cheryl Kernot has joined me. I hope it is not true, but if it is I know nothing of it.

Mr REITH —If you go to the media release issued by the company on Sunday, they said that during the week police confiscated a number of weapons from a former mine employee. They say that they understand that this employee will face legal proceedings. Quite frankly, I cannot give you any further information about those allegations either, and I do not attempt to use the platform of this parliament to make a judgment on either side of the fence.

What you can say, though, is that in this industry, as in some others that we could refer to, there have been some intractable disputes, there have been some very hardened attitudes on both sides of these relationships—

Mr Crean —Is this the way to fix them—let the thugs in?

Mr REITH —The way in which these issues need to be addressed is that ultimately people have to sit down and understand that the opportunity for people to have gainful employment in those industries is to have efficient industries where there can be more jobs, not less jobs. If you take the coal industry, under the industrial relations system that we inherited you have seen in the coal industry a lot of those mines become basically inefficient as a result of the hopeless and out-of-date archaic work practices which have been supported by you and people on your side.

Mr Fitzgibbon —Mr Speaker, I raise a point of order. The minister was asked a very specific question as to whether he condoned the actions of Arco. Whether the accusations are true or not is irrelevant. If they are true, does he condone them?

Mr SPEAKER —There is no point of order. Resume your seat.

Mr REITH —The real relevance of this was put very well recently by Allan Davies, who is the manager of the mine at Hunter Valley. What he said was, `If you go back 12 months ago, we were making $1 a tonne, and in April this year prices fell by $3 a tonne—

Mr Beazley —I have a point of order, Mr Speaker, which goes to relevance. The minister was asked a question about gun toting security guards, whether or not he condoned that behaviour. That behaviour is well attested to by the various sources he mentions. He is now way off the mark on that in some sort of generalised justification of why he should suppress workers generally in the coal industry. We draw our own conclusions from that, but he at least ought to be obliged to draw a conclusion one way or another from a very specific question.

Mr SPEAKER —There is no point of order. The minister is addressing the question in canvassing all of the facts.

Mr REITH —The fact is that when Labor were in office they presided over a system—whether it is in Gordonstone, or the Hunter Valley or elsewhere. The coal industry has seen intractable attitudes to industrial relations, and those attitudes are going to cost a lot of people their jobs, are undermining Australia's exports and are ultimately undermining people's living standards. When you talked yesterday, as you did on Sunday—

Mr Beazley —Mr Speaker, I raise a point of order.

Mr REITH —This is just a campaign of disruption because he does not like the answer.

Mr Beazley —The question is about supporting gun toting thugs and whether or not he agreed with it. He is way off the mark on it.

Mr SPEAKER —We are not going to debate the issue. There is no point of order.

Mr Campbell —Mr Speaker, I seek your guidance. Is it in order for these people to take points of order on my question? I find it very annoying.

Mr SPEAKER —I would truly like to uphold your point of order, but in this environment I am not able to.

Mr REITH —He will be taking points of order over his political carcass for a long time to come. Let me conclude by saying that on Sunday the Leader of the Opposition said, `This is an example of the Americanisation of the labour market regulation in Australia.' The truth is, as Cheryl Kernot herself said, that what we have attempted to do in the Workplace Relations Act that has gone through this parliament with her support is to go further and faster to fix up the problems of the labour market that you left and which ultimately deny the people that you claim to represent the jobs, the job security and the income that we ought to have from a great industry like the coal industry.