Mr MARTIN(12.39 p.m.) —Mr Deputy Speaker, with your reminder to us all as to exactly what this aged care legislation and the amendments that are proposed here are seeking to do, I go specifically to the issue of the capacity of people to pay for that care, which is clause 2(a)(iii). I want to introduce yet another element into this debate because I do not think, although I stand to be corrected, the Minister for Veterans' Affairs (Mr Bruce Scott) has defended in here the government's position in respect of this bill and the effect it will have on another section of the community; namely, the veterans community.

It has been about nine weeks since I had responsibility on our side of the parliament for the veterans community, but let me tell the Minister for Family Services (Mrs Moylan) this: I can recall that when this bill was first proposed the veterans community were very loud in expressing their concerns to me because they themselves operate nursing homes right around this country.

Their concern was for the people whom the present Minister for Veterans' Affairs—and, dare I say, previous ministers as well but more particularly this minister—and this government like to stand up in front of and trumpet how much they are going to look after them. Their concern was: what will happen to these people? Their concern was for the war heroes and the people whom the Minister for Veterans' Affairs sends out kits about and gives people badges to wear and says they have to wrap themselves up in the flag.

The Minister for Veterans' Affairs should now be representing veterans' interests in terms of nursing home places. He has not been here to defend that proposition. I hope he comes in. I hope he or his staff are in front of a television and watching this debate, and I hope that he comes into this place to put a view on behalf of the veterans community because capacity to pay for care, the outcomes that people will receive and getting high quality care are all issues even more important to those people whom this country owes. The people whom this country owes are those who have fought for this country in terms of their service on behalf of this nation.

I find it extraordinary that the views of those organisations—the views of the RSL movement more generally but of a range of organisations associated with the RSL—that operate nursing homes around this country are not being considered here. Perhaps the minister's defence will be that they are a front for the Labor Party. Bruce Ruxton, I can tell you, Mr Deputy Speaker, is not a front for the Labor Party—never has been; doubt that he ever will. He might have had a very good close personal relationship with the former Minister for Veterans' Affairs, but I can tell you he is no front for the Labor Party.

But he and many other representatives of the RSL, I am sure, have expressed these sorts of concerns to the minister. He has expressed on behalf of his constituency, just as people like Rusty Priest in New South Wales and the other presidents of the RSL movement around the states would have expressed on behalf of their constituency, concerns about the impact that all of these aspects of this piece of dreadful legislation will have on their membership.

I just wonder whether they are being heard, whether or not it is perhaps proposed to issue yet another kit on behalf of the Minister for Veterans' Affairs that says, `Don't worry about it. It'll be all right because you'll go into a nursing home and there is bound to be a bed struck for you.' Or perhaps the Minister for Defence Industry, Science and Personnel (Mrs Bishop) might strike a medal, but then that will be struck down. It is simply not appropriate.

As people enter their twilight years of life they can reflect on what this country means to them and what this country owes them—and certain people do have a legitimate claim to say that this country does owe them—yet I am not sure whether the Minister for Family Services or the Minister for Veterans' Affairs has given that appropriate thought.

Certainly many veterans are in the same position as ordinary aged Australians and they are, for that very reason, just as frightened. They are just as frightened about what is going to happen to the family home, they are concerned about the funding they will have to find to buy a position in a nursing home in the future and they are concerned about things like quality of care—whether they will go into a second tier system. That is really a fundamental concern that the veterans expressed to me. (Time expired)