Mr MARTIN FERGUSON —My question is addressed to the Acting Prime Minister. Isn't the increase by 27,000 in the long-term unemployed over the last four months due to the government's decision in May to freeze labour market programs, including skillshare funds, and then hack away $1.8 billion from labour market programs in the Prime Minister's no jobs budget? Will the government reverse the decision to cut these programs? If not, isn't this the reason why unemployment will increase to nine per cent by Christmas? What will the government tell Australian families in December, when Christmas unemployment queues are rising and there is not much Christmas cheer to go around?

Mr TIM FISCHER —Having done over the Leader of the Opposition, I happily hand this to the Minister for Schools, Vocational Education and Training.

Dr KEMP —This question, of course, comes from the former president of the ACTU, who supported the government as it was achieving the highest unemployment rate since the Great Depression—11.2 per cent. He is now complaining that the government has exposed the machinery by which the member for Hotham and his colleagues were seeking to distort the unemployment figures and to constantly redefine the long-term unemployed as the short-term unemployed.

The reason why we have seen the long-term unemployment figures rise in the latest figures is that the merry-go-round for short-term training programs, which brought eight out of 10 people back onto the unemployment queues, has been halted. It is not our view that the government is entitled to reach into the pockets of Australian families, take a billion dollars out, throw it into programs which are not going to lead people on to jobs, and try to promote itself politically.

Mr Crean —They did. You have scrapped the schemes.

Dr KEMP —They did not lead on to jobs. The fact is that over the last six years, between July 1990 and the March election, the Labor Party government succeeded in creating an additional 7,100 full-time jobs. They created an absolute desert of full-time employment. That is the reason why we have the unemployment problem that we have.

Growth in the employment situation tailed off after April 1995. After April 1995, growth in employment tailed away to a rate of 1.2 per cent a year. The reason it did that was even that government realised it could no longer afford the galloping deficits, which piled up $70 billion of deficit spending over the last five years. That was absolutely unsustainable. The balance of payments blew out. The country realised that the International Monetary Fund would be here soon if there were not an end to that policy.

So it was you who slowed down the employment growth. It was you who brought a stall to the employment growth, and it has kept unemployment at 8.5 per cent. It is a disgraceful record, and you are going to have to live with it. It was your weakness in failing to prevent this deficit spending that caused this problem.

Mr Gareth Evans —Mr Acting Speaker, I rise on a point of order. You have had no hesitation whatsoever in interrupting our side in mid-flight when that kind of `you, you, you' stuff has been going on. Under standing order 59, I ask you to intervene and bring the honourable member to order.

Mr ACTING SPEAKER —With your near reflection on the chair, I invite you to consult the Hansard . You will see that I frequently and even-handedly interrupt people on both sides. Before I call the next question—

Mr Lee —Mr Acting Speaker, I rise on a point of order. Why isn't it appropriate for the member to ask a supplementary question?

Mr ACTING SPEAKER —That is not a point of order. The chair was in the process of making an announcement when the member for Batman arose and came to the table. I am not going to hear him under those circumstances, and neither would you.

Mr Price —Mr Acting Speaker, can I ask whether or not you have ruled on the point of order raised by the Deputy Leader of the Opposition. Are you going to call the minister to order?

Mr ACTING SPEAKER —I thought I had made it quite clear that I would do that, and I will do that. Now, if you do not mind, I will continue.