Mr ANDREN(5.55 p.m.) —Tonight I rise in the House to speak on an injustice being perpetrated by this government and, indeed, aided and abetted by the opposition. The Prime Minister (Mr Howard) made all the right noises about a more democratic parliament in this place as the 38th Parliament gathered at the end of April. He has trumpeted the dramatic increase in the number of questions being asked. I can only say that I am glad I did not have to suffer the disgraceful question times of the former Labor government—for most of those I have observed here serve precious little purpose and continue the grandstanding and theatrics that the public, in the galleries and through television, detest.

The major point I want to make tonight is to highlight the total contempt with which the government and the Leader of the House (Mr Reith) regard the rights of the Independent members. We have been consistently asked to deal through the opposition whip when trying to access speaking lists. This is unacceptable. My fellow Independents and I are non-government members of this House—we are not opposition. We will not be party to a speaking list convention that has no role in the democratic parliament. We are not only being asked to submit speaking requests to the opposition whip but also being asked to have them in a week ahead.

Mr Leo McLeay —That's not true; that's a lie.

Mr ACTING SPEAKER —Order! The honourable member for Watson will withdraw that comment.

Mr Leo McLeay —Mr Acting Speaker, I wrote to his colleague today and said they should have them in the day before. It is a mistruth for him to state this here tonight.

Mr ACTING SPEAKER —You will withdraw the word `lie'.

Mr Leo McLeay —I withdraw the word `lie' and say it is an absolute mistruth what the member is telling to the House tonight.

Mr ANDREN —Those were the indications I had. Until that, I was not aware of that letter today.

Mr Leo McLeay —Talk to Filing and get him to put you in the picture before you come in here.

Mr ACTING SPEAKER —The member for Watson!

Mr ANDREN —I have no relationship with the opposition, as is obvious, nor with the whip's offices of the Liberal, National or Labor parties. The constitution confers no exclusivity on political parties. In a letter from the Clerk of the House to the Independent member for Curtin (Mr Rocher) on 23 May, an explanation of procedures for Independents nominating for joint parliamentary committees was set out. In respect of those joint committees, an Independent member is able to make his or her nomination direct to the Speaker. Mr Acting Speaker, this is exactly the arrangement I have been seeking with most other Independents for the past six months in relation to speaking lists.

Earlier today, Madam Deputy Speaker Sullivan used standing order 86 to effectively rule my colleague the Independent member for Curtin as disruptive and obstructing business. A motion of dissent to this ruling was eventually gagged by the Minister for Defence (Mr McLachlan) who said, `They—the Independents—can't be allowed to have their say too often.' This is typical of the arrogance—this party political arrogance—that the people of Australia were led to believe would be tempered by this new government and new Prime Minister.

The Leader of the House told the House earlier today that `on any fair interpretation of standing order 86, the Independents are disruptive'. That is demonstrably untrue. I have sought only the democratic right to gain independent access to the speakers list on bills. The current compilation of the list is a convention. The parties and party whips are not recognised in the constitution. Standing orders are the rules of this House, and they are the rules I abide by.

To have access to the opposition Labor Party list is unacceptable, unworkable and undemocratic. I accessed the Labor list once—for my first speech—until I fully understood the system. There is a procedure in place for other speeches in this chamber where we deal with the Speaker to ascertain our speaking opportunities, according to a strict formula which he or she also applied during question time. It is under this system I am able to speak now. It is fair, and I accept it. Why, for democracy's sake, can this system not be adopted in debate on bills where the Speaker uses his or her discretion to inject us into the debate? We seek no more. By invoking standing order 86 today, Madam Deputy Speaker denied fair and democratic access to the non-party members in this House.

Mr ACTING SPEAKER —I am sorry, you cannot reflect on the chair. If you wish to, you must move a substantive motion.

Mr ANDREN —I will withdraw that. For the minister to think—let alone say—that `we cannot be allowed to have our say too often' is, I believe, a disgrace.

The people of Calare gave me a strong vote in March based largely on my Independent stance and my determination to lift the standard of representational democracy. I understand there are members on both sides who can see the democratic logic of our argument. I hope the government see how counterproductive and cynical is their attempt to force Independents into a system we want no part of.

There must be an independent line to the speaking list—that can only be through the Speaker or through the Chief Government Whip in consultation with the government, opposition and the Independents. There were five Independents elected to this House on 2 March. It is likely there will be another elected to the New South Wales parliament soon. (Time expired)

Mr ACTING SPEAKER —It being 6 p.m., the debate is interrupted.