Mr RUDDOCK(11.29) —I am somewhat troubled about the matter that has been put before the Committee because, in a sense, I think it has lost some perspective. All sorts of proceedings are brought before the courts where people 's liberty can be involved-not just their reputation-and in which there is no certainty that legal costs will be met.

Mr Scholes —They have to be charged though.

Mr RUDDOCK —Here we are in a situation where there is no charge, where there is an inquiry and where the National Crimes Commission is being asked to consider what is just in the circumstances. I can envisage circumstances where it could well be just. But I wonder why, in circumstances where people in our system are otherwise deprived of legal aid because of their circumstances, because somebody is being dealt with before the National Crimes Commission the Commission would have the authority to make such an order.

Recently some comments have been made about Mrs Mackay and the inquest that is to be held in New South Wales in relation to the death of her husband. She wanted to be represented at those proceedings and the New South Wales Legal Services Commission refused to provide such representation. The Acting Attorney- General (Mr N.A. Brown) has indicated that she could apply to the Australian Legal Aid Office for financial support but she would be income tested against all of the tests that are required to be administered before anybody will receive aid from that system. In terms of justice one would think that it is appropriate that Mrs Mackay be legally aided but it has been felt appropriate that her financial circumstances ought to be looked at before aid is made available. It seems to me that in circumstances such as this there might well be a situation in which reasonable people looking at a person's circumstances would want to see financial assistance granted to ensure that people are legally represented. But I do not think assistance ought to be more generous in circumstances in which the National Crimes Commission is involved than it is in relation to other forms of inquiry or proceedings before courts.