Senator FAULKNER —What, if any, role has the Joint House Department had in the changes or the costings of the changes that the Speaker has made in the House of Representatives? Have you had any role in that?

Mr Bolton —Yes, obviously we have been involved in some of those changes over there.

Senator FAULKNER —Would you be able to inform the committee what your role has been, Mr Bolton?

Mr Bolton —The role, firstly, has been to provide some advice about the placement of things like the flags that have been introduced into the chamber and on the way they are fixed in the chamber, and also to have the fixing mounts fabricated. Secondly, our role has been to identify some furniture which was in various areas of the House that could be utilised to provide what they call a distinguished visitors' gallery on the floor of the House of Representatives and some tables which Hansard could try in various locations in the chamber.

Senator ROBERT RAY —Were you also at any stage asked to do an estimated cost of moving the actual fixed chairs and tables of the members over there?

Mr Bolton —We have not been asked to do that, no.

Senator FAULKNER —I would assume—but you can let us know—that this request or advice would have come from the Department of the House of Representatives. Would that be right?

Mr Bolton —Yes. I think the Speaker dealt with his own House and then they raised questions with us. We had some meetings with them and with the Speaker.

Senator FAULKNER —Is any ongoing advice currently being prepared in relation to these matters?

Mr Bolton —As I understand it, after a series of meetings that we have had, the work being done in the House of Representatives is being very much treated by the Speaker as a pilot project. He has had a meeting of his own house committee—that is, the House of Representatives House Committee—to discuss with them what he has done and to get their views. He has also said that, at the next meeting of the joint house committee, he would like to provide a report to the full joint house committee on what he has been doing. But we have not been asked to finalise anything in a permanent way at this stage. He is treating it very much as a pilot operation.

Senator ROBERT RAY —There are no revenue consequences for putting people on the floor of the House, are there, Madam President?

The PRESIDENT —I do not believe so. If new furniture were purchased, that would be different. But, as I understand it, it is using furniture that is here.

Senator FAULKNER —Can you give us some details of any building work that was carried out in the ministerial wing following the ministerial reshuffle and expansion last year? Has Joint House had any involvement in that at all?

Mr Bolton —If there was some building work, we would have. Might I ask the Chief Engineer whether he is aware of any?

Mr Guilfoyle —The amount of work that occurred was absolutely minimal. There have been a few minor fabrications as there always are when any minister takes an office—things like bookcases and the like. There has been no real structural work of any substance at all in the last two years in the ministerial area. The sole exception to that is the one that was raised last time where there were some minor works done, funded by another department, for the government members' secretariat.

Senator ROBERT RAY —Including the frosted windows.

Senator FAULKNER —The reason I asked the question is that I thought that with the expansion of the ministry there might have been some changes. Is that because some of the parliamentary secretaries have basically previously been located in the executive wing, anyway?

Mr Guilfoyle —That question would be better asked of the chamber departments. To the best of my knowledge, we are using the same sort of space for the ministry now as we were previously, and the way in which they have shuffled their ministry is not something that we take account of. The Parliament House executive wing branch handles that sort of allocation of space.

Senator ROBERT RAY —I think what Senator Faulkner was saying is that the Howard government initially had 28 ministers as opposed to 30, then moved it to 30, and two of those offices that were vacant were to be used by parliamentary secretaries, and then they had to be moved out.

Mr Bolton —They have had to relocate back to ordinary members' offices.

Senator FAULKNER —If there were changes—and I hear what you say; very minor building works, like bookshelves and the like, and that is fair enough—such as a requirement for computer cabling, would Joint House Department be aware of that?

Mr Bolton —Generally, we would be aware in the sense that you need some overall controls. It might be their contractors, but before anyone can come into this building we control what we call an access system, where we issue passes to people to work in certain areas; so we can make sure that security considerations and other issues are complied with, and that they also comply with the protocols that we establish for people who work in Parliament House, so that they do not interfere with electrical circuits and other equipment into the House and, therefore, cause problems elsewhere. We have a permit system, as it is called. But they would be paying for that sort of work. If the government wants some extra security cabling or extra secure telephone network, they pay for that work. But we organise the permit system to make sure that they comply with the systems in the House.

Senator FAULKNER —Mr Guilfoyle mentioned a matter I raised at a previous estimates committee about the government members secretariat. Can you let us know the status of the massive upgrade of services and facilities at the government members secretariat downstairs?

Mr Guilfoyle —We did provide, I think, to the committee a drawing last time. That was really the extent of our involvement with the works. There were those couple of officers putting them back. It was repainted. We removed the old vertical venetians and put in frosted
glass to bring it more into keeping with the character of the rest of the thing there. That was not true frosted glass. At this stage we have just used film. It is actually a very cheap way of doing it. It is just a plastic film which is applied to the original glass without any remaking of the glass in the area.

Senator FAULKNER —Where else is such film applied to glass in Parliament House?

Mr Guilfoyle —The second floor on the members and guests dining room outer walls. That was done by ourselves in 1988-89 because a number of members and senators felt that the original frosted glass did not go high enough, and if someone was standing they were visible above the line. So that has been extended on both sides on the second floor. There are also some windows—both prior to this time and lately—in the ministerial area, where some of these staff offices have frosting applied, where people wanted some more privacy rather than an opening through an existing staff room window onto a corridor.

Senator FAULKNER —So why is it out of character?

Mr Guilfoyle —The original vertical venetians, which were in a rather poor state, were out of character. We removed those because we do not generally have large numbers of long vertical venetians other than on a few windows, and they were getting rather tatty, so the frosting provided a neat solution to the windows rather than replacing them with more expensive curtaining.

Senator FAULKNER —So it has nothing to do with—putting the best spin on it—privacy or—the more likely spin on it—the secret operations that are taking place behind the frosted glass. I am just relieved to hear that.

Mr Bolton —Senator, I think you will find that that solution was our suggestion rather than the suggestion of the people in the area or any direction from the government. Generally, where we have internal offices—this is not always the case, but generally where we have internal offices—and we have some role in doing the work, we suggest that we do not introduce venetians and other fittings. Rather, we would prefer that that space be covered with frosted glass so that you can still get some light visibility through into what could be a dark area which would need more lighting. So it has been one of our policies to try to push that through fittings where people are building offices inside, not on external walls, to use frosted glass or this film on the glass rather than fit venetians, et cetera.

Senator FAULKNER —Since you were able to apprise us of what had occurred down there at the government members secretariat at the last round of estimates hearings, can you let us know whether there has been any further—apart from what you have told us today, which is appreciated—building work or plans for any further building work in that particular area of Parliament House?

Mr Bolton —I am not aware of any.

Mr Guilfoyle —No, we have had no requests from that area. We have good communications with the people in the PHEW branch, the executive wing, to make sure that they do apprise us of anything that will affect our services—airconditioning, lighting or power. I am not aware of any such request at this time.

Senator FAULKNER —If there had been any additional cabling or the like, you would be aware of that also?

Mr Guilfoyle —We try to be across all computer cabling and secure phone cabling, but we do not have quite as direct a control there. We depend on the good graces of the people down in that area, so that we can supervise and make sure the standards are kept to. In the reshuffle
that Senator Ray talked about before, there was some additional secure communications, I think, by the Department of Defence because of the location of the parliamentary secretary. There were a couple of other elements like that that I am aware of. I cannot bring to mind anything else that has occurred in recent times.

CHAIR —That completes Joint House Department. Thank you, Madam President and officers.

[10.32 a.m.]