Senator BOYCE —I was just wanting to look at the fact that the first chief executive of the Aboriginal and Torres Straight Islander Healing Foundation, Mr John Roe, has been dismissed from his position after one month there and look at the effect that this is having on the work of the foundation. What effect is it going to have on the program of the healing foundation and what have you done in terms of trying to replace Mr Roe?

Ms Tim —The foundation is an independent body and is incorporated as a public company, limited by guarantee. The chairperson of the foundation advised us about the dismissal of the chief executive officer and advised us that the board had made that decision in the best interests of the organisation. We have been working closely with that body in this establishment phase and the department is satisfied with the progress. Their funding agreement sets out milestones and so far the work is continuing.

Senator BOYCE —It is very early days, isn’t it?

Ms Tim —Absolutely. They are committed to recruiting the vacancies to the organisation as soon as possible and establishing premises.

Senator BOYCE —What was the recruitment process getting to the stage Mr Roe was appointed?

Ms Tim —I understand that they advertised through a national recruitment process and it was open merit selection. Mr Roe was appointed on probation at the end of November.

Senator BOYCE —Was it a professional recruitment agency that undertook the interviews and whatever or was it the board in the end?

Mr Harmer —It is disappointing that it has happened, particularly so early, because it is a very important organisation, but the responsibility for the recruitment action is a matter for the board and the board chair.

Senator BOYCE —I realise that.

Mr Harmer —They coordinated with—and, I assume, engaged—the recruitment agency, which is the normal practice, went through the selection process, and he was selected. It is disappointing, but they, I assume, go through another selection process.

Senator BOYCE —But, Dr Harmer, in the circumstances, obviously the department would want to satisfy itself. As you said, it was disappointing. Yes, it happens, but, given the very early stages of this you would obviously want to satisfy yourself that the processes were not the problem.

Dr Harmer —Indeed.

Ms Tim —They did not use a separate recruitment panel, but they did set up an independent selection committee, independent of the board. They made some recommendations to the board and, as I understand it, the board made that decision. Given it was a new board at the time you would understand that, under their constitution, they had appointed the CEO on a probationary period. They felt that they made this recent decision in the best interests of the board. The department has a couple of seconded officers to the agency.

Senator BOYCE —When you say ‘couple’ do you mean two?

Ms Tim —They have had three and currently they have two. They are assisting the board in recruiting staff to support the board in the longer term.

Senator BOYCE —Was Mr Roe dismissed because of improper or illegal use of his credit card?

Ms Tim —I think that is a matter for the board. All that we have been advised by the chairperson of the board is that Mr Roe was terminated in the interests of the organisation.

Senator BOYCE —There was a report in the Weekend Australian, of 6-7 February, from Professor Judy Atkinson, who is the secretary of the board, saying that Mr Roe was dismissed ‘for a range of reasons’ and that ‘it was an attitude thing’. Are you able to cast any more light on those comments?

Dr Harmer —No, we are not.

Senator BOYCE —Were those comments put to you in the department as to why this—

Dr Harmer —We were not involved at all in either the selection process or the dismissal process.

Senator BOYCE —But, presumably, you have had a report about it?

Dr Harmer —We have tried to help the organisation by seconding staff, but they are an independent organisation. We are very careful not to get ourselves involved in taking over the responsibility of other organisations.

Senator BOYCE —No, but I would imagine that you are also very careful to ensure they behave with good governance and probity?

Dr Harmer —Yes, because it is important to us we are.

Senator BOYCE —Has the foundation referred any of Mr Roe’s activities, while he was chief executive, to the Federal Police or to any other investigative agency?

Dr Harmer —We probably would not know that. That is a matter for the board.

Senator BOYCE —You would not expect the board to advise you if they were intending to undertake that sort of a prosecution in basically their first month of real existence?

Dr Harmer —They had sufficient autonomy to be able to operate independently on that.

Senator BOYCE —You may not be able to answer this question. Was Mr Roe given a severance package and, if so, what was it?

Dr Harmer —I do not know. I would be surprised if Ms Tim knows and it would be a matter for the board.

Senator BOYCE —But, one would imagine, it would be in their annual report?

Dr Harmer —You would assume so.

Senator BOYCE —I have a few more questions but I will put those on notice.

CHAIR —There will be significant questions for the program on notice, including something on leadership, Ms Tim, I promise.

Ms Tim —Could I correct a mistake?

CHAIR —Certainly.

Ms Tim —Mr Roe was appointed, I think, mid-December. I said, ‘At the end of November,’ but it was mid-December.

CHAIR —Thank you, Dr Harmer. We have had to renegotiate this afternoon to swap the headings. We will have Employment and Economic Development straight after lunch at one o’clock.

Proceedings suspended from 10.33 am to 10.49 am