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Saturday Sunrise -
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(generated from captions) Kununurra celebrating this fantastic part of the world. We are going to be some of them.There is a lot going on. We have food events appear and big concerts, music concerts, artistic events and is JT mentioned, a lot of Indigenous led to cultural events so it's a fantastic thing, the Ord Valley muster if you do get a chance.It started off with one night and now it is huge. Lots of fun. Should workers get paid more
for working Sundays than Saturdays? That question is in the hands
of the Fair» «Work Commission, which won't hand down a decision until after the Federal Election. But a Fairfax Media investigation
yesterday revealed McDonald's struck a secret deal
with the union that represents 28,000 workers to trade off penalty rates
for a slightly higher hourly rate. Shortly, we'll discuss the future
of penalty rates with our panel, but first, let's hear what people
on the street think. Penalty rates are the right of the
people who work on the weekends. I think scrapping them
is a terrible idea. Unfortunately, some people
have to work weekends, while you're at uni or whatnot. I don't know. On a Sunday, how important
is Sunday lunch to you? Like, or Sunday breakfast. How much do you want to pay? It's...we don't get that. So, I think they're important. Penalty rates are important and they apply largely
to the people that are on the lower rates of pay
anyway. A lot of my nephews and nieces
are university students. They basically depend
on the penatly rates to make ends meet for them. I mean, they're barely
earning enough as it is. It's a Sunday,
it's normally a family day, you get taken away from your family, you should be getting paid
extra rates, no matter if it's a public holiday
or a Sunday or a Saturday. That's right. Good stuff. Cheers, mate.

Time to bring in our panel. In Sydney is Jo-Anne Schofield, National Secretary for the union representing hospitality workers. And 2GB's Chris Smith. In Canberra is Small Business
Ombudsman Kate Carnell. And Greens Industrial Relations
spokesman Adam Bandt is in Melbourne. Morning to you all. Jo-Anne Schofield,
if we could start with you. Has this revelation about a deal between McDonald's
and another union, the SDA, damaged your union's position
on penalty rates?

Absolutely not. Our union 's position is clear. If workers are working on the weekend, if they are giving up time with family and friends, they deserve compensation for the sacrifices that they are making and that is something but I'm pleased to see has wide support in the community.I think you are probably right. There is a lot of support that the community. I don't know that many people would want to scrap penalty rates altogether. Some do. Let me ask you, what is the difference between a Sunday and a Saturday in the modern economy and the modern social setting? Why wouldn't they both be the same rate?Sundays are a little bit more special. There are times when people tend to do the sort of things as we heard an introduction, have lunch together, spent time with their family. But the important thing is that we are talking about a pay cut or workers who are working on Sunday. We are talking about people who are currently giving up their time to surface in restaurants and cafes and cutting their rates of pay by up to a third if there is a reduction in Sunday penalty rates and we know that very few workers can afford to take a hit on the third of their income on their pay packets and hospitality workers who earn close to the minimum wage, and that's with penalty rates, certainly can't afford a cut in pay.Sure. Kate, you represent small business. What sort of changes would this make for business owners?From small business owners perspective, they now are expected to be open on Sundays. That's what the community wants. They want to have their restaurants, their cafes, tourism applets, those sorts of areas open on Sundays. Their customers expected but the great dilemma for, there are 2 million small business people in Australia, remember, and a lot of them are in the retail and hospitality and tourism areas. For them, their customers expect them to open but the cost of opening on Sunday because of penalty rates makes it really hard for them to open and if they opened, what happens is, they work and their families work. If they dosh if penalty rates were the same on Saturday, they would be able to provide a whole lot of extra jobs as has already happened in New Zealand.Kate, if you own a cafe for example, let's say you are employing eight people in your cafe. What would be the difference ultimately to the bottom line between paying 1.5 times and double time on a Sunday?It's an extraordinary large amount of money and the difference it makes is lots of cafes will open for breakfast, brunch and then they will close as soon as they can and will not open in the afternoon. We have all seen that. Lots of cafes close. The reason may close is simple because they've got to, well, they've got to big as penalty rates makes it difficult. If penalty rates on Sundays are the same as Saturday, they would stay open, it's that simple. It's just a matter of economics of the dollars.Chris, I'm interested to hear what you think. You say most people feel people should be paid more to work on weekends.There are enough? Its parent at the can I say, I really worry and I'm disappointed that we think in terms of old traditions that have been established in the 30s and 40s, these are such old penalty rates rules. Yes. Destined to protect Sundays if it was sacrosanct, which it was in the 1940s and 50s and 60s and 70s. Sunday is different. This is an opportunity to the country. An opportunity to create, as the catering industry says, 40,000 jobs. An opportunity to give someone penalty rates that equalled the same as Saturday but there are opportunities to work additional shifts or small business to open again. Somehow in this country, we've got to get it out of our head that we are somehow lucky because we got everything and has an established many decades and we will prosper into the future. We will not prosper into the future unless we start picking up other ways to grow the economy to be more productive and supply people are great opportunities for jobs. This is one of the ways we can do it. The productivity commission has said it needs to be done. It's only the hospitality and retail. It's not the nurses and teachers and everyone in the community. But we could be creating 40,000 new jobs. Got to seize the opportunity.Yes. Adam, we know the Greens position is firmly in favour of maintaining penalty rates as they are. If the commission, that there were commission recommends changing Sunday rates, is that the end of the fight for you?No, it's not. There is still something special about Sunday and I think people in the community acts at that but there is nothing in law at the moment that says that Sunday should be paid more than Saturday. It does say in the law at weekends are still special but I do think there is something special about Sundays as well. It might have had historical beginnings but it is one of a few days left that people can get together with friends, get yourself ready for the week and still, the majority of Australians do not do paid work on Sundays are the Greens are saying we can make sure that protection and most people would think it is the law but it should be made crystal clear.Adam, can I buy tin? You will not listen to the umpire 's decision. Even Bill Shorten is prepared to listen.Well, the umpire, that there were commission does a very important job and does it independently but it does it within the rules that are set down by Parliament and it's up to parliamentarians to set what community standards are. Parliament doesn't sit on a Sunday. Until it does, I think most people still think there is something special about Sunday. In the same way we still have in law that you get four weeks annual leave per year as a minimum, you can put in law what the minimum standards should be. That is our job as parliamentarians, to work for community standards in the community says those who have to work on a Sunday should get paid for doing it, then we need to make sure it is in law. In my area of Melbourne, it is the same in Sydney and other cities and towns around the country, you don't have any difficulty in finding a place to go and have a copy on Sunday or do your shopping. But what we are saying is people have to work there behind the counter should get paid properly for it.Andrew, at can I respond.Kate, I was gay to say. Can you understand why workers would be concerned that this is the thin edge of the wedge? First it is Sundays, then Christmas and Easter and we had to work 24 hours around the clock. It's a slippery slope, yes?And then that -- that there were commission is independent. They are required to pay or have penalty rates on Saturdays and Sundays higher during the week. What they looking at at the moment is Sunday different from Saturday and whether society has changed a lot. The fact is, it is not a slippery slope. Last year, Australia got a million Chinese tourists. That is only 2% of the Chinese people who are going overseas to a travelling. This isn't just about asked getting a cup of copy. It's about growing the economy, making sure that establishments are open on Sunday when this increasing number of tourists are coming to Australia. It's also about the 250,000 young people in Australia can't get a job and also we are talking the moment about the people who have got jobs. What about the people who haven't got jobs? They would love to work some hours on Sunday. The tourists benefit, the community benefits and we give jobs to young people.Its win up in. This would be a body blow.Can I just respond...? Can I just respond...? About jobs... There is no...I am really sorry, we do have to leave it there. Thank you for all your views this morning. There is a lot left in this debate. We might come back to it over the next couple of weeks because there are still a few things we have left. Thanks the time. And, Chris, Kate, Joanne.