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Australian Agenda 10 February 2013 Julie Bishop
Sky News
Australian Agenda
Interview with Julie Bishop
10 February 2013
Interview with Julie Bishop, Deputy Leader of the Opposition
Australian Agenda program, 10 February 2013
Peter van Onselen:
And as mentioned off the top of the program, we are joined here in the studio by the
Deputy Leader of the Opposition Julie Bishop. Ms Bishop, thanks for your company.
Julie Bishop:
Good morning.
Peter van Onselen:
There's an argument about you in today's 'Sunday Telegraph'. It talks about how if all
goes well, you'll be Deputy Prime Minister. How does Warren Truss feel about that?
Australian Agenda 10 February 2013 Julie Bishop
Julie Bishop:
I can't vouch for the accuracy of Sunday Telegraph's stories, but clearly as everyone
knows, should the Coalition win Government, the National Party take up the Deputy
Prime Minister's position...
Peter van Onselen:
Even if the Liberals win in a landslide and can govern in their own right?
Julie Bishop:
That's part of the Coalition agreement. But let's not get ahead of ourselves. We have a
very tough election ahead of us and we will be focusing our efforts on ensuring that the
Australian people see us as the alternative to what is a shambolic dysfunctional
Government.
Peter van Onselen:
One of the issues in this election year, which I'm sure Paul would like to talk about as
well, is going to be the female vote and, you know, some of the debate that's been had
after that speech by the Prime Minister. In that same story in the Sunday Tele today,
you made - you had there's a quota attributed to you about making the point that
women can't have it all.
Is that the right message to send to women with children that, in a sense from a career
perspective, if I'm interpreting this correctly, they may not be able to rise to some of
the lofty positions that women that haven't had kids can?
Australian Agenda 10 February 2013 Julie Bishop
Julie Bishop:
Again, I can't vouch for everything in a 'Sunday Telegraph' article. But the point I was
making is that there was an article written recently in the United States by Anne-Marie
Slaughter who pointed out that as a high profile career women, she had to make a
choice and the choice was she gave up her career to focus on her children.
The point I'm making is today women have many, many choices but as you make one
choice, then that may well rule out something else. And so it was just a commentary
on the challenges facing women and we understand that. That's why Tony Abbott's
going to introduce this paid parental leave scheme that reflects the challenges facing
working women. And we believe that a number of our policies will appeal to women
who either make the choice of staying at home or going to work or women who try and
combine both.
Paul Kelly:
But you do seem to be criticising women who think they can have it all.
Julie Bishop:
I'm not criticising. I'm just stating as a matter of fact, Paul, that if you make one
particular choice, then it can rule out other alternatives. And there are options for
women. There are choices for women. But, at the end of the day, it might mean that
you can't do everything that you wish to do. I mean, there are a lot of things that I'd
like to do but because I'm a Federal Member of Parliament flying back and forth
between Perth and Canberra on a regular basis, there are some things I can't have.
Australian Agenda 10 February 2013 Julie Bishop
Paul Kelly:
Well, staying on this article, is it true that Julia Gillard doesn't talk to you?
Julie Bishop:
Yeah, we don't have much of a relationship at all. I have friends on the other side of
the Parliament. Just because they are Labor members, it doesn't mean that I don't
have things in common with them and we can discuss things and I have an easy
rapport with a number of people on the Labor side, but that doesn't include the Prime
Minister.
Paul Kelly:
But isn't this pretty pathetic; that the two senior women in the National Parliament
don't speak to one another?
Julie Bishop:
Yes, it is pretty extraordinary. I've certainly gone out of my way to strike up some
conversation, but it seems that I'm not Julia Gillard's favourite politician at present.
Paul Kelly:
Well, when did this start?
Australian Agenda 10 February 2013 Julie Bishop
Julie Bishop:
It's been around for a long time. I mean, I don't want to go into details, but I have a
much easier rapport with other members of the Labor Party than I do with the Prime
Minister.
Paul Kelly:
And what sort of response did you get from the Prime Minister, at a personal level,
when you began to question her late last year about the Slater & Gordon incident?
Julie Bishop:
I think she was expecting it. She knew that when she unleashed that disgraceful attack
on Tony Abbott, calling him a misogynist, saying to a happily married man, the father of
three beautiful girls, that he hated women, I think Julia Gillard knew that she was
making...
Peter van Onselen:
Do you really think she meant it that way though? I don't think she meant it as he
hated women. I think she meant it in this definitional change that seems to be
happening to the word "misogyny". Just simply that he didn't favour women in a sort
of modern sense.
Julie Bishop:
Well, that's clearly nonsense. Whichever way she meant it - and you'd have to ask her
what she meant by the use of the word "misogyny" - I think it was a deliberate choice
Australian Agenda 10 February 2013 Julie Bishop
of word and the Macquarie Dictionary hadn't redefined it at the time she made the
statement, but it was a whole attack on Tony Abbott which is clearly ridiculous. It's
demeaning to his family. It's demeaning to the women who work with him. But I think
that it was designed to paint Tony Abbott in the worse possible light and I thought it
was disgraceful.
Paul Kelly:
But it has clearly done some damage. I mean, it's obviously done some damage to
Tony Abbott and he's had to adjust his own tactical approach. Do you think Labor will
continue with this attack in the election year?
Julie Bishop:
Yes, I do believe they will. They obviously think that they can score personal blows,
score points against Tony Abbott. It's false. It's clearly not true. Tony has a great
rapport with women. I work very closely with him. He's got females surrounding him.
His Chief of Staff. He has promoted a number of people in the party. His history as a
minister is to promote women's issues. As Minister for Health, he had a whole range of
policies that were directed towards enhancing women's health issues. So I don't think
that the fact that he has this wonderful background in promoting women's issues will
stop Labor from going for the very low personal attack.
Paul Kelly:
Do you believe that this puts a special responsibility upon yourself, as the senior women
on the Coalition side, in terms of replying to these attacks? I mean, is that the way
that you actually see it yourself?
Australian Agenda 10 February 2013 Julie Bishop
Julie Bishop:
Well, I certainly believe that when lies are told about Tony Abbott, they should be
refuted. Not just by me, but by every member of the team who knows Tony, has
worked with Tony and understands that he is not a misogynist. In fact, he's very
supportive of women's issues and choice and options for women and that's reflected in
his policies.
Peter van Onselen:
What about the fact that Tony Abbott says that he won't be changing his frontbench in
Government? You will be hoping, I suspect, that if you pick up seats, that there will be
more women amongst those, yet there is only two women on the Coalition Shadow
Cabinet team. Wouldn't you like to see changes, if for no other reason, than to get
more women around you in that all important room?
Julie Bishop:
Well, certainly we have a very united frontbench team and the main criticism of our
frontbench seems to be that some of them don't have a high media profile. Well, being
the most prodigious user of Twitter or being in the media all the time is not the test of
a good Shadow Minister and our Shadow Ministers are working hard, consulting with
industry and business and families and out in their electorates, building their policies
and building their credibility in their portfolio area and Tony Abbott says, as things
currently stand, this is the team he intends to take to the next election.
Australian Agenda 10 February 2013 Julie Bishop
But, of course, there are always opportunities to promote people and I'm sure that
Tony will promote some of the exceedingly talented females that we do have in our
team.
Peter van Onselen:
After the election? You'd hope soon after the election?
Julie Bishop:
Well, it's a matter for the leader obviously and circumstances. But the current team is
very experienced, very focused and operating exceedingly well and when you contrast it
with the dysfunction within the Labor frontbench, half of them can't stand each other
and there is this ongoing leadership crisis within the Labor Party. I think the Coalition
appears as a very, very credible alternative.
Peter van Onselen:
We are going to move on to portfolio issues shortly, but just one question. You
mentioned - or Paul asked the question - about the AWU attacks between you and Julia
Gillard last year.
The opposition have not started the year with a continuation of that line of attack. Are
we going to see more of it or have you, in a sense, given up on that?
Julie Bishop:
Australian Agenda 10 February 2013 Julie Bishop
Well, don't forget these aren't ideas that the Coalition came up with. This whole story
about Julia Gillard and her involvement in the slush fund comes from her own side,
from former AWU members, from the Fair Work Australia - or the Industrial Relations
Commissioner in Cambridge. So her own side are promoting this story. We ask
questions...
Peter van Onselen:
Sure. But you asked all questions almost - I mean, almost Question Time entirely at
the end of 2012 but nothing so far.
Julie Bishop:
Peter, there is a police investigation in Victoria underway into Julia Gillard's involvement
in the AWU slush fund affair and as new matters come to light, I certainly won't flinch
from asking Julia Gillard questions about her involvement in a matter that ended up
with hundreds of thousands of dollars going missing and no-one has been held to
account.
Paul Kelly:
Okay, but let's just clarify this. Is it the Opposition's intention to pursue the issue in
Parliament this year?
Julie Bishop:
Australian Agenda 10 February 2013 Julie Bishop
It's not the Opposition's intention to flag, on Australian Agenda, our tactics in the
Parliament. But most certainly I will not flinch from asking Julia Gillard questions about
her...
Paul Kelly:
So you won't back down?
Julie Bishop:
Absolutely not. This goes to her character, her judgment and the not insignificant
matter of hundreds of thousands of dollars going missing from the AWU.
Paul Kelly:
To what extent is there a bit of tit for tat here? I mean, Julia Gillard accuses Tony
Abbott of being a misogynist and a few months later the opposition launches this very
concerted parliamentary attack on Julia Gillard's past when she was a lawyer at Slater &
Gordon. There does seem to be a connection.
Julie Bishop:
Paul, Julia Gillard came out and made a number of statements to the media about this
AWU matter as a result of leaks from her own side, as a result of a statement made by
Robert McClelland in the Parliament. So she put on record a whole raft of explanations,
or non-explanations, as to her role.
Australian Agenda 10 February 2013 Julie Bishop
It was as a result of those public statements that we were able to ask her questions
because her story just does not stack up. There are many unanswered questions about
a rather shameful affair in AWU history.
Paul Kelly:
Now, we mentioned Kevin Rudd a while ago. You are close to Kevin Rudd. Does he
confide in you?
Julie Bishop:
I don't know whether you'd call it "confiding" but we certainly have spent some time
together. We've travelled overseas together. We do catch up from time to time.
When he was the Foreign Minister, he was very gracious in giving me briefings on
matters of concern to the country and so over a glass of wine or two, we've shared
some thoughts.
Paul Kelly:
And given the fact that you "share thoughts" with Kevin Rudd, that he does, I think,
confide in you, given the answer you've just given, what's your assessment of the way
Rudd sees the current year in terms of the leadership?
Julie Bishop:
Well, I wouldn't say he "confides" in me. In this atmosphere within the Labor Party of
leaks against Prime Ministers, and then people investigating the leaking of the leaking, I
wouldn't suggest he's confiding in me as such.
Australian Agenda 10 February 2013 Julie Bishop
This is my personal assessment. I believe that Kevin Rudd has one more tilt at the
leadership in him before the next election and that is because if Labor loses the next
election, Kevin Rudd won't be the Opposition Leader.
If Labor wins the next election, Kevin Rudd won't be the leader. So he's got one
chance and it will be between now and the 14 September.
Peter van Onselen:
Watch this space.
In your portfolio area, yourself and Scott Morrison travelled to Sri Lanka recently. Now,
the UN has come out and said that the idea that the Coalition has about turning back
boats on the high seas would be illegal. Is that embarrassing as Shadow Foreign Affairs
Minister for the UN to be saying that?
Julie Bishop:
Not at all and I disagree with their assessment of it. In fact, the United States does this
on a regular basis with people who are coming from Haiti or from Cuba and there is a
United States case about this and they have shown, time and time again, that they are
within their rights to do it.
We went to Sri Lanka for the express purpose of seeing what the conditions were like
on the ground. Particularly in the former Tamil Tiger held strongholds in the north and
Australian Agenda 10 February 2013 Julie Bishop
we've satisfied ourselves that our policies are right and that what we are seeking to do,
should we win Government, in stopping the people smuggling trade can be achieved
with the cooperation of the Sri Lankan Government.
Paul Kelly:
To what extent will you try and use the same technique when it comes to other
countries; that is, get their support for turning back the boats?
Julie Bishop:
There will be a regional approach. Clearly, this is not something just between Australia
and Sri Lanka because the asylum seekers are coming from other places as well.
So we will work through the Bali process. We will try to work cooperatively with as
many Governments as we can in the region.
But our specific concern, in relation to Sri Lanka, was this spike in people coming from
Sri Lanka, even though the Civil War had ended some three, four years ago and we've
satisfied ourselves that we can work very cooperatively with Sri Lanka to ensure that
the people smuggling trade that has flourished there, under the Gillard Government in
Australia, can be dismantled.
Paul Kelly:
Well, can we just try and nail down the situation in relation to Indonesia? In a Coalition
Government, you'll be the Foreign Minister, you'll have responsibility for relations with
Australian Agenda 10 February 2013 Julie Bishop
Jakarta. So what is the balance between cooperating with Jakarta and taking a tough
line with Jakarta as far as the Coalition Government is concerned?
Julie Bishop:
Tony Abbott and I have already met with the relevant Ministers in the Indonesian
Government on a number of occasions. I have a very good working relationship with
their Foreign Minister Marty Natalegawa and we'll continue to work with them, should
we win Government, to find solutions to the people smuggling trade in Indonesia and
how we can work together.
Paul Kelly:
So you want a solution with Indonesia?
Julie Bishop:
With Indonesia.
Paul Kelly:
You are quite certain about that?
Julie Bishop:
Quite certain about that.
Australian Agenda 10 February 2013 Julie Bishop
Paul Kelly:
You won't be imposing decisions...
Julie Bishop:
Absolutely not.
Paul Kelly:
Or policies on them?
Julie Bishop:
Of course not. We have great respect for the Indonesian people and the Indonesian
Government and, as John Howard did in the past, we will in the future work
cooperatively with Indonesia and ensure that we have a coordinated approach to
dismantling the people smuggling trade.
Peter van Onselen:
You mentioned "work cooperatively" with them. Is it true that one of the things that is
on the table, in terms of Coalition planning on this, is to try to assist Indonesia with its
terrorism problem with Southern Philippines, whether that is strategic assistance or
whether it is intelligence assistance as a way of cooperating so that they then help us
with the people smuggler business that's delivering asylum seekers to Australia?
Julie Bishop:
Australian Agenda 10 February 2013 Julie Bishop
Indonesia is one of our closest neighbours and one of the most important countries in
Australia's foreign policy considerations and we will work very closely with the
Indonesian Government to assist them in concerns that they have over particular issues
as we hope they will work with us over our concerns.
Peter van Onselen:
But does that include that particular issue, Ms Bishop?
Julie Bishop:
Well, I'm not going into the details. We are the opposition. I'm not in a position to
make agreements with foreign Governments nor enter into any sort of arrangements
with them at this stage.
But can I just say this: we have a very good working relationship with the Indonesian
Government which we continue to foster now, so that when we are in Government,
there can be a seamless transition to working closely with them and a whole range of
issues, terrorism, border protection, illegal trafficking, a whole range of things.
Peter van Onselen:
Can I put it this way then: have they, in your discussions with the Indonesian
authorities, have they expressed to you that one of their concerns is terrorism from
Southern Philippines when you're talking to them about your concerns about boat
people coming to Australia?
Australian Agenda 10 February 2013 Julie Bishop
Julie Bishop:
I won't go into the detail of confidential discussions I've had with their security defence,
intelligence representatives. But clearly, terrorism is an issue that we've discussed in
some detail.
Paul Kelly:
You've made it clear that you're unhappy with the lack of influence that DFAT has inside
the decision making process within the Australian Government. How will you change
that as Foreign Minister?
Julie Bishop:
Over successive Governments, I think the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade's
influence has waned as other departments have taken more responsibility, particularly
Prime Minister's office, has in the last couple of years, centralised a number of foreign
policy initiatives within that office. And I believe that DFAT should be at the centre of
foreign policy decision making in this country.
It's a question of ensuring that the head of DFAT has the appropriate authority. For
example, at the National Security Sub Committee of Cabinet meetings, in terms of
developing particular policies.
So much of our foreign policy has been seen through the national security prism. Now,
that's understandable post-September 11, but I think in the 21st century, we really
have to focus on what is the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade's true role in
promoting Australia's national interest.
Australian Agenda 10 February 2013 Julie Bishop
I'm very keen for it to have a focus on what I call "economic diplomacy", that we
ensure we can find markets for Australian goods, we can focus on our export orientated
economy and do what we can to promote Australia as a strong and prosperous
economy.
Paul Kelly:
Okay, well, all of this requires an increase in the budget. Are you confident you can get
an increase in the budget and to what extent would you be prepared, as Foreign
Minister, to be looking at a bit of transfer of funds from this incredibly large foreign aid
budget to Australia's own diplomatic strength?
Julie Bishop:
Paul, clearly, one of our first priorities in getting into Government will be to start to pay
down Labor's debt. Some $250 billion in gross debt is a mammoth task for any
Government to have to grapple with. And so our first priority will be to start paying
down that debt.
But once we are in a position to look at increasing budgets in places - obviously defence
is a place where we need to increase the budget, given that Labor has decreased it as a
percentage of GDP to very dangerous lows - I am hoping that the Department of
Foreign Affairs and Trade will also be able to put in a pitch for an increase in its budget.
Peter van Onselen:
Australian Agenda 10 February 2013 Julie Bishop
Can I ask you: what kind of Foreign Minister will you be in terms of appointments and
political appointments? John Howard was known for not giving anyone in Labor much
of a break when it came to political appointments. Kevin Rudd actually upset his Labor
colleagues when he became Prime Minister by making quite a few appointments as
Prime Minister that were based on Liberals, such as Brendan Nelson getting positions.
What will your advice be to Tony Abbott in these sort of appointments assuming that
you do win the next election?
Julie Bishop:
I've always believed in merit-based appointments and I would be looking for the best
people for the job. I think...
Paul Kelly:
So you would give Kevin Rudd a job?
Julie Bishop:
Well, if Kevin wants to apply for a job, I'll judge it against the others who are applying
for that same position. But certainly he has talents and ability and experience in
foreign policy that shouldn't be wasted and I think that former Prime Ministers usually
have a contribution to make. But I will certainly be looking for a range of people to fill
our posts overseas because they are, after all, Australia's voice ambassadors to the
world and I think there are a number of people, not only within the department, but
also outside that have a lot to contribute.
Australian Agenda 10 February 2013 Julie Bishop
Peter van Onselen:
I've got a feeling that if Kevin Rudd is applying for a job, it might not be for a position
in Foreign Affairs. Paul Kelly and I have been talking to Julie Bishop, the Deputy Leader
of the Opposition, and to continue that discussion, we are joined now by Senior News
Limited Columnist, Piers Akerman, and Business Editor at 'The Australian', Geoff Elliott.
Gentlemen, welcome to the program.
Piers Akerman:
Thank you.
Geoff Elliott:
Thank you.
Peter van Onselen:
Ms Bishop, we were talking just before the break about Mark McGowan.
Now, he's fighting a difficult election, according to Newspoll, over in Western Australia
against your colleague, your Liberal colleague, Colin Barnett. He has come out
yesterday, in response to questions about the carbon tax, and said he wouldn't have
introduced it and he doesn't agree with it.
Australian Agenda 10 February 2013 Julie Bishop
By the sounds of it, he is trying to basically get as far away from Julia Gillard as he can
in this campaign.
Julie Bishop:
This is very damaging for Julia Gillard. She would have us believe that Australians have
accepted her carbon tax, but clearly what's happening is that polling for Labor in
Western Australia have indicated that the carbon tax is poison. That families are
concerned about it. They are concerned about their job prospects, the cost of living,
driving up electricity prices. They are worried about how it will hurt investment. And
Mark McGowan has been advised that he better distance himself, not only from Julia
Gillard, but from her poisonous carbon tax.
Peter van Onselen:
Is it going to help him, do you think?
Julie Bishop:
I don't think it will assist him in anyway, but clearly, he believes that he needs to
distance himself from the carbon tax because it is so unpopular in Western Australia.
Coming on top of the mining tax, Western Australians can be forgiven for thinking that
the Gillard Government has declared war on Western Australia.
But the problem, of course, is nobody will believe Mark McGowan. It's been 12 months
or more that he's refused to say where he stands on the carbon tax and here we are, a
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couple of weeks from the election, and he comes out and says "No, I don't believe in a
carbon tax and I oppose it and I wouldn't have introduced one".
Show me a Labor Premier that doesn't embrace a tax and it will be a revelation.
He will impose more taxes should he get into Government but he sees it as convenient
now to say he opposes a carbon tax.
The point is, it's very damaging and destabilising for Julia Gillard.
Peter van Onselen:
Can I ask you then this: I mean, so you think that he will impose other taxes, but Julia
Gillard, is she likely to campaign in Perth? Is she likely to be welcomed to come into
Perth if you've got a leader at State level that is turning around and saying something
like that?
Julie Bishop:
Well, my understanding is that Labor don't want her anywhere near the Western
Australian Labor election campaign. For example, Julia Gillard is not being invited to
launch Labor's campaign, but, of course, Tony Abbott will be in Perth for the Liberal
campaign launched in the middle of February.
Australian Agenda 10 February 2013 Julie Bishop
Colin Barnett will welcome having Tony Abbott's presence there because Tony Abbott
will be campaigning against the mining tax and against the carbon tax, which are both
so damaging for cost of living and investment and job opportunities in Western
Australia.
Geoff Elliott:
Is it just another variation though of the politics of the west where they do tend to, you
know, dis the Feds, if you like.
You know, we see that even from Colin Barnett, not so much obviously with your party,
but obviously with the Gillard Government's approach to foreign policy looking north
rather than to the east, but there's a tradition of Western Australian politicians
distancing themselves from Canberra.
Julie Bishop:
Well, geographically we are on the West Coast and when you look north and look west,
it's not just a geographic location, it's a state of mind.
Western Australia does see its economic opportunities to the north - China, India,
Japan, South Korea - and the Government in the west, very disappointed with the
performance of the Gillard Government in terms of forging strong relationships with
countries in our region, for example, the live cattle export trade disaster that the Gillard
Government imposed with its ban on cattle exports to Indonesia. That had a dramatic
impact on Western Australia.
Australian Agenda 10 February 2013 Julie Bishop
The carbon tax will have a huge impact on the resources sector in Western Australia, let
alone cost of living for households, and the mining tax appears to be directed to
Western Australia. Hence, the constitutional challenge for the mining tax.
So I think that Colin Barnett is quite entitled to complain that the Gillard Government
has declared war on Western Australia and he will stand up and fight for Western
Australia.
And this is the point about Mark McGowan. At the end of the day, he'll fall in behind
Labor. He won't stand up - if he's the Premier of Western Australia, he won't stand up
for Western Australia against a Labor Federal Government.
Peter van Onselen:
But if he's prepared to do so from Opposition, as he's just done now, surely if he's got
the authority of being Premier, he's certainly going to be prepared to stand up to Prime
Minister Gillard?
Julie Bishop:
I doubt that very much. Everything that he's demonstrated to date is that he'll fall into
line and when there's a bit of pressure on him, he's just been advised - I think Hawker
Britton are over there in Perth now, he's been advised that the polling is disastrous on
the carbon tax in Western Australia.
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I've not met anybody who embraces new taxes in the west. They don't think it's a
great idea to put a tax on electricity, to send electricity prices up and up and up, year
on year, for a State that's so dependent on a resource and mining sector.
Geoff Elliott:
Do you think the East Coast establishment sort of understand the changes in Western
Australia? I mean, it's got an economy growing at a faster rate than China for instance.
Do you think...
Julie Bishop:
And unemployment at 4.25%. The Gillard Government tries to take credit for
unemployment at 5.4, but when you look at Western Australia's figures, that's what's
assisting.
I mean, unemployment in Tasmania and elsewhere is going north. Whereas in Western
Australia, it's down in the 4s.
I think there is a lack of understanding as to what is required for the Western Australian
economy to keep going at this turbo charged pace.
It doesn't need the heavy burden of regulation, particularly in the environmental
regulation controls that are being imposed. It certainly doesn't need additional taxes
and the mining tax, come on, it does take a special kind of genius to design a tax that
Australian Agenda 10 February 2013 Julie Bishop
has forecasts of, what, $4 billion and then $2 billion and raises only $126 million and
the Government has spent it anyway.
Paul Kelly:
Okay, let's look at the GST. Colin Barnett has put a major claim on an Abbott
Government saying that in relation to the distribution of GST revenue, he wants a
better deal for the west and the west getting back 70 cents of GST revenue in the
dollar. What's your response to that?
Julie Bishop:
We agree that Western Australia should have a fair go and we'll certainly be looking at
the GST in Government.
There's nothing we can do from Opposition. But we believe that Colin Barnett has
made a fair point that if the Western Australian share goes down at the level that it's
been decreasing, it ends up getting 10, 20 cents in the dollar. I mean, that is a
nonsense.
You want to ensure that Western Australia has sufficient GST to build the infrastructure
that enables the economy, in the west, to continue to...
Peter van Onselen:
So what would your baseline be then?
Australian Agenda 10 February 2013 Julie Bishop
Julie Bishop:
Well, they are the sorts of details that we will work out in Government. But he does
have a point.
Paul Kelly:
Sure. But can I just ask you then: given that the current model means that the funds
going to WA are going to be reduced all the time, do you think we've got to look at a
new model for GST revenue distribution?
Julie Bishop:
Well, obviously this is one of the issues. With an economy like Western Australia's,
generating so much income, you can't possibly then punish it by reducing its share of
the GST.
Paul Kelly:
Would you prefer a new model? Would you like an Abbott Government to have a hard
look at it and come up with a new system?
Julie Bishop:
We'll certainly have a hard look at it, whether it means a new system or not remains to
be seen. But Colin Barnett has a fair point and Tony and Colin have discussed this on
occasions and I'm sure they'll continue to do so.
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Peter van Onselen:
You won't give us any details but is there a commitment there that something will be
done? It won't sit as it is now where WA sees its revenue continuing to slide in terms
of GST distribution?
Julie Bishop:
Well, you just have to look at some of the comparisons. You have a State - let me take
Tasmania...
Paul Kelly:
I was going to ask you about Tasmania.
Julie Bishop:
Where the Green Labor Coalition have done all they can to suppress economic activity
in Tasmania. Well, that Government should not be rewarded by suppressing economic
activity by getting handouts from Western Australia. There has got to be fairness in the
system and Colin Barnett has raised that point.
Peter van Onselen:
Yet you won't give us any details on it and I suspect the reason might be because the
Liberal Party is very hopeful of picking up seats in Tasmania and the reality is that if
Australian Agenda 10 February 2013 Julie Bishop
you say that you're going to do something about the GST situation in WA, it means a
State like Tasmania is going, by definition, get less money?
Julie Bishop:
Well, clearly there has to be fairness in the system. Everybody would agree with that.
That gives a head nod. And you cannot punish a State like Western Australia for being
successful and putting in place pro-development policies that drive, not only the
Western Australian economy, but the Australian economy and that's what the Barnett
Government has done.
Paul Kelly:
I think, you know, there's been a big debate today based on the leaked Coalition
discussion paper about northern Australia.
How committed is the Coalition to a new development strategy for northern Australia?
Julie Bishop:
We're very passionate about developing the north. We have been for some time. We
took to the last election a number of policy initiatives that would see greater
development in the north, whether it's in relation to food or water, infrastructure
generally.
That was a draft discussion paper. It was a collection of ideas that a number of people
have put to us. One of my ideas was in there. But it's not our policy. It's been sent to
Australian Agenda 10 February 2013 Julie Bishop
a number of people for input, a number of prominent Australians, and I understand
Andrew Robb is getting feedback from a whole raft of people...
Paul Kelly:
But, presumably, this in some form or other will end up being policy?
Julie Bishop:
That's right. In some form or another. But I notice that Labor went into a complete
lather about it. I mean, how dare the Coalition come up with policy ideas and no fewer
than 11 Ministers put out press releases, damning some of the ideas in it.
Well, that's obviously ridiculous. We will have a policy about developing northern
Australia which will have a number of initiatives in it...
Paul Kelly:
And it will be based on economic incentives presumably? I mean, what else can you
do. There will be a whole series of economic incentives, will there?
Julie Bishop:
We're very aware of the tax consequences of creating zones. There are a number of
issues that we're looking at there. But people are giving us ideas and we have ideas of
our own. It will come together into a policy paper that we'll be putting out for
consultation.
Australian Agenda 10 February 2013 Julie Bishop
The idea of building centres of excellence in the north is certainly one that I'm
promoting and I support.
The figure about money being redirected from the aid budget is not right. But most
certainly the idea of us building centres of excellence in to tropical disease research for
the benefit of countries in our north is one of our ideas and I hope that we will be able
to announce that.
Geoff Elliott:
The tape obviously is an enormous issue though, and, I mean, if we were China we
probably would have had a couple of more cities up in the north by now, and not saying
that we should go down that path, but, you know, obviously the zonal taxation issues,
how do you get around the issue of green tape?
Julie Bishop:
Well, Tony Abbott has already announced that the Coalition will ensure that the
regulatory burden in this country is lessened by having a one stop shop environmental
approval process as opposed to the State and Federal dual trap that's happening at
present holding up projects for years.
We will shorten that time, still maintaining the environmental integrity of the process,
but we will certainly lift that regulatory burden.
Australian Agenda 10 February 2013 Julie Bishop
But the issues that we are going to have to deal with are the carbon tax, because that
is just a drag on investment and a drag on job prospects, and the mining tax which,
likewise, even though it's poorly designed, we can see that Labor and the Greens want
to increase the mining tax so that it really does hit our strongest performers hard.
Peter van Onselen:
So on that view, you really do have to stick by your commitment that if you can't get
the mining tax repealed through the Parliament, if you win the next election, you will go
to a double disillusion election? It is not enough simply to drop the effective rate to
zero?
Julie Bishop:
The carbon tax will be an absolute definite for us. We will absolutely get rid of the
carbon tax. We will absolutely get rid of the mining tax and should we be stymied in
that, if our mandate is not recognised by Labor or the Greens, well, then that would
mean a double disillusion.
Piers Akerman:
So how do you propose to address problem States, like Tasmania, where Labor Green
policies over the last decade or more have institutionalised mendicancy and absolutely
throttled any development, whether it be at mining or farming or?
Julie Bishop:
Australian Agenda 10 February 2013 Julie Bishop
Well, clearly there are very entrepreneurial people in Tasmania who are wanting to be
part of the mainstream economy and on a number of visits that I've had there, there
have been some terrific projects in Tasmania, some wonderful businesses that are
doing things on a world class scale, including in manufacturing. And they just need an
even break. Get rid of the mining tax, get rid of the carbon tax, bring down the debt,
encourage productivity and a State like Tasmania, can be a contributing part of our
Australian economy, just as other States can and should be.
Paul Kelly:
I wonder if I could take you back to the foreign aid budget. This is a massive amount
of money.
Now, I just want to clarify the Opposition's position. What is your commitment in terms
of an increase in the foreign aid budget?
Julie Bishop:
Our commitment has not changed, other than Labor have made it impossible to meet
the date of 2015 to reach .5% of gross national income by 2015...
Paul Kelly:
So what's the Coalition commitment?
Julie Bishop:
Australian Agenda 10 February 2013 Julie Bishop
Well, our commitment is to .5% of gross national income but we can't put a date on it
because of the state of the...
Paul Kelly:
You can't put a date on it?
Julie Bishop:
No, we can't. And can I point out Paul? Can I just point this out though...
Paul Kelly:
So this is a worthless commitment because there's no timeline?
Julie Bishop:
Well, this is the commitment that we took to the 2007 election. It's a commitment that
we took to the 2010 election and said that on the basis of the books, as we knew them,
we'd be able to meet that commitment by 2015. Labor has now pushed that out...
Paul Kelly:
Of course you can't.
Julie Bishop:
Australian Agenda 10 February 2013 Julie Bishop
Way beyond the forward estimate. So we have no idea what will be required to meet a
.5%, in terms of an increase, by 2016.
Paul Kelly:
Well, can I just ask another question? I mean, it's widely believed, given the enormous
rate of increase in the foreign aid budget, that it's just riddled with all sorts of waste, all
sorts of inefficiency. Is that your view?
Julie Bishop:
I am deeply concerned that there are instances of duplication and misdirected priorities.
That's why I wanted an independent review into aid effectiveness and aid efficiency.
To his credit, Kevin Rudd introduced that review when he was Foreign Minister.
However, there is a fundamental recommendation that has not been implemented by
this Government and that is, according to the review, there must be benchmarks in
place before the aid budget is increased so that we can judge its effectiveness, its level
of efficiency. The Government have not put those benchmarks in places.
Paul Kelly:
And you'll put them in place?
Julie Bishop:
Australian Agenda 10 February 2013 Julie Bishop
Absolutely. That will be one of the first things we will do in respect of the foreign aid
budget. We will put in place key performance indicators, or benchmarks, that they
must meet before there is an increase and that will be the first thing we do.
And the feedback I get from Governments overseas, whilst they are all very grateful for
Australia providing significant amounts of aid, so often they say "But it's not in the
areas that we want. It's not in areas that are likely to increase self sufficiency or
economic independents".
So often we are giving aid in areas that just increases their dependency on overseas
development assistance.
Peter van Onselen:
Julie Bishop, you have been very generous with your time. Thanks very much for
joining us on Australian Agenda.
Julie Bishop:
It's been my pleasure.