CHAIRMAN -I welcome Senator Bolkus, representing the Minister for Employment, Education and Training, and the officers of the Department of Employment, Education and Training. Minister, do you wish to make an opening statement?

SENATOR BOLKUS -No, thank you.

CHAIRMAN -Are there any general questions on the portfolio?

SENATOR TIERNEY -I refer to the latest complete annual report available, for 1988-89. We now have a draft of the 1990-91 annual report, which was finally made available on Monday morning. It has a number of serious deficiencies, including the lack of an index. I was just wondering why the annual report was not available in time for the Committee's hearings.

DR JOHNSTON -Madam Chair, I would like to apologise to the senators for the document being available as late as it was, but these timetables are pressing ones, and certainly an index will be included when the report is finalised.

SENATOR TIERNEY -I note that parts of the annual report not included are two introductory chapters covering a description of the Department and some of the important issues facing the Department through the year. What are some of these important issues that are missing from this report?

SENATOR BOLKUS -Draft reports are provided essentially to try to provide assistance to the Committee. The fact that they are draft reports indicates that they are not complete and have not been finally published. Unless Senator Tierney actually wants to raise something of substance going to issues covered in the draft report, no inference should be drawn from the fact that there might be parts of the report missing. It is basically a mechanical thing in terms of printing and organisation.

We could, of course, take the attitude that we would not provide a draft report and leave it that the final report is the only report before the Parliament. Maybe Senator Tierney could take that into account. If he still wants to proceed with his question, obviously we will try to answer it, but I do not know that all that much will be gained out of that sort of process.

SENATOR TIERNEY -I would like to pursue it because there would be financial statements in this report and surely those statements would have to have been prepared for the Budget that has just been delivered. So my question is: why are those not available and why is it in an incomplete form at this stage?

SENATOR BOLKUS -I think the simple answer is that they are available in the Estimates document. I do not know the precise reason why they are not in the draft report but I presume it has something to do with printing and those sorts of things. I will see whether there is any further information we can give you.

DR JOHNSTON -Madam Chair, we could provide your Committee with a timetable for when that material could be provided. Hopefully, it could be provided in time for you to return to that issue if that were thought necessary.

CHAIRMAN -I would point out to the Committee that it is not an obligation to have the annual report. In fact, the Department is paying us the courtesy of giving us what it has got at this stage.

SENATOR TIERNEY -As this report has some important issues facing the Department as one of the major sections that has not been included to date, one would think that this would be very valuable information for senators to have at this stage when we are considering the program for the Department over the coming year.

SENATOR BOLKUS -Yes. I will say in response to that that what we are doing tonight is considering the estimates, and those estimates will obviously be very fully and accurately reflected in that final report when it is published. Senator Tierney, I take you back to the comment that was made by the Chair, and that is that the draft report is presented by way of a courtesy. It is one to provide information rather than to provide the basis for questions such as that. But there is nothing to hide. Basically, if the report as it is tabled does not reflect the estimates, then someone is in trouble, and it will not be on your side of the table.

SENATOR TIERNEY -All right. I have another series of general questions relating to information provided on page 17 before we get to program 1. I will ask them at this stage unless someone else wants to carry on at this point.

SENATOR KEMP -Madam Chair, I have a number of questions. I think it would be easier if I put them on notice. That would probably help speed the journey slightly.

SENATOR BOLKUS -May I see them before we, on this side, give total approval to providing all the answers?

CHAIRMAN -Are there any other questions of a general nature?

SENATOR KEMP -Yes. I would like to ask the Minister or perhaps the officers a general question relating to staffing in the Department and staff policy. Are there any employees of the Department who are either full time or part time union officials and in that role are they paid by the Department to carry out union functions?

DR JOHNSTON -We do have officers who are active in the unions represented in our Department. I cannot advise you in detail of the working arrangements with such staff but we could provide that information for you.

SENATOR KEMP -Could you detail whether the officers are full time union officials, whether they are part time union officials, and whether when they are carrying out their job on behalf of the unions they are paid? Obviously, if they are carrying out a job on behalf of the Department, one would expect them to be paid, but are they paid while they are carrying out their jobs as union officials?

SENATOR CALVERT -I have a couple of general questions. Minister, you can tell me if I am in the wrong area. I would like to know what is the current staffing level of the Department overall?

DR JOHNSTON -Madam Chair, if the Senator would turn to page 16 of the portfolio performance statements he would see that that provides a full summary of program expenditures and staffing by program. It indicates that the estimated actual staffing for 1990-91 was 11,565 and that will rise to 13,051 this financial year.

SENATOR CALVERT -Right, and the total wage bill is also there, is it?

DR JOHNSTON -That would be provided elsewhere.

SENATOR CALVERT -Right, we will wait until we get there. Have you had any redundancies this year? Would you have a record of the total number or the extent of redundancy payments that the Department has made this year?

DR JOHNSTON -There has not been a notable program of redundancies this year, Senator, but I could check with officers and confirm the extent of activity in that area.

SENATOR TIERNEY -I refer to page 17 of the report, where there is reference to a new personnel management staffing salaries resources system which was introduced in 1990-91. I have a series of questions relating to this and they are based on the Auditor-General's report No. 7 inquiring into various aspects of the running of DEET. On page 35 of the Australian National Audit Office report, it refers to the functioning of your Department's Queensland office and it has this to say about advances and accountable forms:

. . . the reasons for increases in advances were not always documented or supported by properly certified claims for payment in accordance with the Finance Directions

I would just ask your response to that and about five others. Do you want me to give you the lot or do them one by one?

DR JOHNSTON -It is possible, Senator, that we will not be able to answer those questions in detail tonight but let me say that there are two systems that have been implemented this year. One is a financial management system known as FINEST and the question you have just asked is in a sense more relevant to the FINEST system. There is also a staff management system known as NOMAD and both systems are used by a number of departments in Canberra.

SENATOR TIERNEY -Right. Perhaps I could place those questions on notice and get detailed responses to them. The second series of questions on this relates to DEET purchasing procedures and again, from the findings of the National Audit Office, again in the Queensland office. I have four questions relating to that in terms of what the National Audit Office saw as inappropriate or incorrect procedures, so I will place those four questions on notice. There are a further six questions relating to revenue collection and receipt, again out of the Auditor-General's report, and I will place those on notice as well.

CHAIRMAN -Are there any further questions of a general nature on the portfolio? In that case we will proceed to considering the programs.