Senator KIRK —I have some questions about the National Community Crime Prevention Program. I understand that under the old program, the NCPP, the AIC was funded to manage a number of projects, such as the farm victimisation surveys, the small business crime prevention project and crime against small business surveys. Is that correct?

Dr Makkai —That is correct.

Senator KIRK —I am wondering whether or not the AIC will be able to apply for funding for those research projects through the new program, the NCCPP.

Dr Makkai —Those projects, as they currently stand, are coming to an end. We have done all of the research that we would want to do on those. We are just finishing up a number of reports and we would not be seeking any further funding because we have already done the research for them.

Senator KIRK —Over what time period were those projects?

Dr Makkai —They varied. The farm crime survey, for example, was a project that went over three years. Crimes against small business also went over about the same period of time. I think those are the two main projects.

Senator KIRK —Yes—crime against small business and small business crime prevention project.

Dr Makkai —They were bundled up together.

Senator KIRK —Will the AIC be able to apply for funding for research at all?

Dr Makkai —I am afraid I am not across the detail of how that fund is being administered by the department.

Senator Ellison —I will answer that. The AIC per se is funded for its operations quite separate and apart. I think there is NIDS funding for the DUMA program. Also the AIC, I think, is given funding from, in some cases, state governments for particular programs or research. So the AIC does get funding from other sources. Funding from this particular program would not be essential for its ongoing work—quite the contrary. I suppose you could not rule out a situation where, if someone were in partnership with the AIC doing some work on crime prevention, that application would not be considered. As I said yesterday, the criteria in relation to crime prevention really are quite broad. Certainly the applicant has to be an incorporated body and has to meet the criteria concerned. If that were the case then local government or local community groups—the AIC in partnership with some entity—might be able to apply.

Senator KIRK —I am just trying to establish it, because under the old program, the NCPP, clearly it was the case that the AIC was able to get funding for the projects that I mentioned. But I understand, from what you are saying now, that the AIC will not be able to apply in its own right as a single entity under the new program. Isn't it the case that it has to be a community based organisation that applies?

Senator Ellison —Yes, but that does not rule out people like local government working with the AIC or a university working with a group in the community. The focus of this is entirely different now. What we are looking at are community based solutions to crime. The AIC is a research body which provides both discrete and comprehensive assessments as to trends of criminal behaviour and a whole range of issues nationally and also, in partnership with some people, on a local basis. So I do not see that the AIC would be ruled out from applying for funding, but I would suggest that it would need to do it with a community based approach, and that would require a partnership with a local university, local group or something of that sort.

Senator KIRK —So it would have to be in collaboration with another group, which is what you are saying.

Senator Ellison —Community based is the big issue here; that is what this is all about. It has changed the emphasis of the program. That is the issue here.

Senator KIRK —I understand that the specific programs that I mentioned are coming to an end, and that is that. But isn't it fair to say that, if a similar initiative were to be undertaken, the AIC would not be able to get funding for such projects as the farm victimisation survey or the small business crime prevention project? Is that your understanding?

Senator Ellison —No, I do not think so. I think that it would depend how the application was put forward and if there was a partnership. You have got to remember that I am the decision maker here, and I am giving people advice on how to get their grants up. What if you had the AIC with the Small Business Association developing a pilot program which would assist in particular areas to prevent crime being committed on small business? If you could use that and replicate it around the country, that would be a very good program. The very point that Senator Ludwig made yesterday, which was a good one, was that you want to know where something works and then, if you can duplicate it and replicate it elsewhere, you do so. I see no reason why the AIC could not be involved in a group such as the Small Business Association or maybe even a rural group. There might be some rural action group to prevent crime in small communities in regional Australia. That would be a classic.

Senator KIRK —There are some good tips there as to how to write your crime application.

Senator Ellison —That is how I see it anyway; that is how I would do it.

Senator KIRK —Can you tell me whether or not the AIC was consulted on the development of the new NCCPP.

Dr Makkai —No, we were not.

Senator KIRK —Were you surprised by that? Were you expecting to be, given that, under the old program, you had applied for, and been successful in getting, some research moneys?

Dr Makkai —I think those sorts of initiatives are done internally, within the department.

Senator KIRK —Perhaps I will ask the department: was there consultation with groups other than the AIC?

Mr Cornall —I am not aware of the answer to that question without referring to other officers. The position is that the National Crime Prevention Program was a terminating program. My recollection is that a year ago we got funding for this year, as an extension for one year, while the future of the program was considered. The government decided which way it wanted to go with this program in future and that is where we are going with the program from 1 July. I would not necessarily have expected people who had received grants from the old program to be consulted, no.

Senator KIRK —Would it be fair to say that the AIC does have expertise in community based crime prevention?

Dr Makkai —We have a number of analysts who work on a range of research topics, and those research topics range from the local area up to the national area.

Senator KIRK —From what we have heard today, do you think that there will be potential for the AIC to apply for funding under the new program?

Dr Makkai —We are always keen to look for more money.

Senator Ellison —An example of where the AIC gets money is, I think, from Ageing. There was something there; they have given money to the AIC.

Dr Makkai —And the Office of the Status of Women as well.

Senator Ellison —What I am saying is that these areas can be funded from other areas as well. There is also some money to continue the publication of the identity fraud kit, the crime prevention for seniors kit and a couple of others which escape me at the moment—the printing of those. DUMA will continue, but that is NIDS funding.

Mr Cornall —It is funding for the AIC.

Senator Ellison —It is funding for the AIC, but the DUMA funding is where we assess prisoners who are arrested at the various watch-houses around Australia and have a urinalysis for the presence of illicit drugs. That is an extremely good program which is funded by NIDS. Really, the AIC has a range of areas of funding.

Senator KIRK —I understand there is an advisory group for the NCCPP. Has the AIC been invited to participate in that?

Dr Makkai —We have been invited to sit on an advisory panel. I do not know whether it is that particular one or whether it is another initiative. I would have to check and get back to you with that.

Senator KIRK —So you are not sure whether the advisory panel is the same thing as the advisory group?

Dr Makkai —No, we have just had a phone call about it and we will follow up on the details and so on.

Senator KIRK —Minister, could you perhaps clarify whether or not—

Senator Ellison —Madam Chair, this was the subject of questions yesterday by Senator Ludwig as to the advisory panel for the new community crime prevention grants. I indicated yesterday that this was under consideration and that we were considering a number of people at the moment. I indicated that as soon as it was in place I would advise the committee. I anticipate that would be very soon, because in our advertisement last Saturday we said that from 1 July onwards we would be considering applications.

The range of people we are looking at on this advisory committee are from a variety of backgrounds—crime prevention, law and order, academia, the Indigenous community. There really is a mix. There are both officials and private sector people. I cannot go further than that because a number of approaches have been made and it would be inappropriate to reveal that at this stage.

CHAIR —I understand that, and we did canvass this at some length yesterday.

Senator KIRK —I think Dr Makkai said that you in fact received a phone call.

Dr Makkai —I do not know if it was that advisory committee. It was something that was happening and I cannot recall the detail of it. I would just like to add, though, that we do have to be careful. Obviously we cannot sit in an advisory committee if we are then going to apply for money. We have to weigh these things up.

Senator KIRK —You received a phone call from—

Dr Makkai —From an officer in NCP. I can get back to you with the exact advisory committee.

Senator KIRK —Yes, could you take that on notice.

Dr Makkai —I am not sure if it was that one or another project that they were doing it for.

Senator KIRK —That would be helpful. As to the date of the phone call, who called you and all that, could you take that on notice, please. They are all the questions I have for the AIC.

CHAIR —Thank you, Dr Makkai. We will move to CrimTrac.

[12.06 p.m.]